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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I've had my PZ85U for about 6 weeks now, 190 hrs logged. I woke up yesterday and turned the dial to CNN to get a glimps while I get ready for work (no more than 10 minutes) and I turn the TV off (pressing the cable remote power button which simultaneously powers down my TV and cable box).


I go to work, come back home a good 10 hrs later, turn on the tele via the Panny remote and I see the CNN logo retained in the bottom right if I'm 3 ft or closer to the tv. I'm thinking "Wait a minute, I shut it down! WTF!?" Has anyone had a similar scenario? Is there an alternative way of powering down that I dont know about?!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRYDR /forum/post/15505722


So, I've had my PZ85U for about 6 weeks now, 190 hrs logged. I woke up yesterday and turned the dial to CNN to get a glimps while I get ready for work (no more than 10 minutes) and I turn the TV off (pressing the cable remote power button which simultaneously powers down my TV and cable box).


I go to work, come back home a good 10 hrs later, turn on the tele via the Panny remote and I see the CNN logo retained in the bottom right if I'm 3 ft or closer to the tv. I'm thinking "Wait a minute, I should it down! WTF!?" Has anyone had a similar scenario? Is there an alternative way of powering down that I dont know about?!

My panny IR emits outside the screen like 3D. This makes its easy to remove because I can "hand grab" the IR and throw it in the toilet.

Wear your 3D glasses when you see IR and do as above.



Just kidding but I need a interpreter for your post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 /forum/post/15506037


My panny IR emits outside the screen like 3D. This makes its easy to remove because I can "hand grab" the IR and throw it in the toilet.

Wear your 3D glasses when you see IR and do as above.



Just kidding but I need a interpreter for your post.

Dude!!! You don't understand!! I already tried the 3D glasses!!!!!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRYDR /forum/post/15505722


Is there an alternative way of powering down that I dont know about?!

Sorry about your dilemna here. IR sucks, even at a minimum level. I have to say though, if you've got to strategize in powering on/off your expensive tele as if walking on eggshells......man, it's a sad thing but I digress. Sorry I can't contribute too much to your thread here as I don't have the same set you have.


I'm somewhat weary about everything with this technology as I just put down over 3 grand for a plasma and the IR in your thread title caught my attention.
 

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My pz85 also gets some IR, it appears when you first turn on the set it's most prone. This may have to do with the way it works. Contrary to popular belief, IR does not disappear when your tv is off - it needs to be on so the phosphors can burn evenly again.


I'm guessing that if you run a full screen (w no static logos) for a few min the cnn would go away. When i play any games i let it sit on a full screen channel first for about 5 min, almost to let it warm up.


On a side note, i'm swapping my 85 for another one on jan 17, since the IR is bugging me.

IF this second one also does the same thing, then i'm either going to the 5020 kuro or moving to the samsung 750 lcd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjoc13 /forum/post/15506351


My pz85 also gets some IR, it appears when you first turn on the set it's most prone. This may have to do with the way it works. Contrary to popular belief, IR does not disappear when your tv is off - it needs to be on so the phosphors can burn evenly again.


I'm guessing that if you run a full screen (w no static logos) for a few min the cnn would go away. When i play any games i let it sit on a full screen channel first for about 5 min, almost to let it warm up.


On a side note, i'm swapping my 85 for another one on jan 17, since the IR is bugging me.

IF this second one also does the same thing, then i'm either going to the 5020 kuro or moving to the samsung 750 lcd.

Luckily, my IR situation is not THAT bad. I think warming it up as you had mentioned would be a good idea. I actually have the break-in images on my SD card. I should pop it in there for a few minutes prior to gaming. I noticed that the logo has faded away. Now I know for next time
 

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There is something that happens when a high contrast image is on screen and you shut the TV off or switch to a blank input that causes a particular form of IR. I think it's some sort of residual charge left in the pixels that causes the persistent image, not an uneven "burn" as mjoc13 suggests.


I see this sort of thing occasionally if my room is darkened and I shut off the 360 from the dashboard - a very faint ghost/outline of the various shapes remain visible on the shut off TV for a short time. I also saw a logo version of it once, after watching a football game in the evening on NFL Network. We turned the TV off when the game was over, in the morning we turned on the 360 and I could make out a faint NFL logo in corner on the 360's bright white/pale green loading screen. It faded from view in a few seconds.


This on a set that never shows IR from HUDs or logos when changing channels, switching games, etc. I wish somebody who really understands how these screens work would chime in. I'm pretty sure this is a harmless phenomenon that bodes no ill for the future of these sets, but due to general lack of knowledge (my own included
) gets mixed in with the concerns about real burn in caused by drastically uneven phosphor wear and causes unecessary worry, handwringing, and LCD purchases



CBRYDR, I'd recommend switching to a channel without logos for a few seconds/a minute before shutting the TV off, see if that changes it.


jeff
 

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Ironically I had a conversation with a Panasonic employee regarding this topic a few weeks ago. They had a model on display which exhibited the same phenomena as described above and several members within my team were questioning him.


A plasma screen will begin to show signs of IR once the set warms up to a certain temperature. Throughout the viewing time while the TV is on the plasma is constantaly picking up on the strongest colors/light and at any given time the IR could be visible if that intensity in light is held at a specific point for a certain period of time. Having said this once the TV is shut off the plasma cells that were the brightest at the time the TV was powered off will remain in a somewhat disturbed state hence why a ghost image is visible. Once those individual plasma cells get disturbed (once the TV is powered up again) they will return to their normal state within seconds of operation and the ghost image will disappear.
 

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IR is something all plasmas; Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, etc are more susceptible to. Ignore the fanboys here and pay attention to the highly paid engineeers who document in their respective manuals for each brand.

I think in your case as in most others, as the TV gets older it will be less prone to IR and I'm sure your IR will disappear within a day or so.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRYDR /forum/post/15506600


Luckily, my IR situation is not THAT bad. I think warming it up as you had mentioned would be a good idea. I actually have the break-in images on my SD card. I should pop it in there for a few minutes prior to gaming. I noticed that the logo has faded away. Now I know for next time

Do you have your pixel-shifter/anti-retention features engaged correctly?


Do you have your contrast up really high?


Did you have the contrast/brightness/color jacked up really high for break-in purposes and leave the settings like that while watching the CNN new show?


10 minutes seems extremely short to develope IR. Especially 190 hours into break-in.


Maybe the your model or TV is just very vunerable.


As you can see, the IR fades away so fast its nothing to worry about.


Just enjoy the set and have fun and don't listen to the ones who consider it some big issue.


They are just reaching.


Most likely the only time you will notice IR is with no signal and it goes away as fast as it shows up


Still never seen IR on any of my plasmas. knock on wood.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 /forum/post/15508726


Do you have your pixel-shifter/anti-retention features engaged correctly?


Do you have your contrast up really high?


Did you have the contrast/brightness/color jacked up really high for break-in purposes and leave the settings like that while watching the CNN new show?


10 minutes seems extremely short to develope IR. Especially 190 hours into break-in.


Maybe the your model or TV is just very vunerable.


As you can see, the IR fades away so fast its nothing to worry about.


Just enjoy the set and have fun and don't listen to the ones who consider it some big issue.


They are just reaching.


Most likely the only time you will notice IR is with no signal and it goes away as fast as it shows up


Still never seen IR on any of my plasmas. knock on wood.

+1 to all this.


My PZ85 does not exhibit this. But I use a Contrast/Brightness setting that is not torching. It's about normal. Like 60 Pic and 52 brightness. I play Rock Band 2 alot. Watch 4:3 with grey bars. Watch movies in widescreen. Hundreds of hours.


I have from time to time seen a little ghostly image of something from the last time I shut down jsut ever so faint. But I know it's nothing. I just keep on using my set like it just don't matter and moments later it is gone. If I can see it at all that is.


C.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/15508201


IR is something all plasmas; Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, etc are more susceptible to. Ignore the fanboys here and pay attention to the highly paid engineeers who document in their respective manuals for each brand.

I think in your case as in most others, as the TV gets older it will be less prone to IR and I'm sure your IR will disappear within a day or so.

You really should not lump those three together as they each perform VERY different in regards to image retention. Even without the orbiter, it is very difficult to cause IR on a current generation Pioneer. It occurs much more easily on the Panasonic displays, though isn't unreasonably by any means.


The Samsung panels, however, are a nightmare in this regard and can easily retain imagery on screen from just a short viewing period.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark1x /forum/post/15509341


You really should not lump those three together as they each perform VERY different in regards to image retention. Even without the orbiter, it is very difficult to cause IR on a current generation Pioneer. It occurs much more easily on the Panasonic displays, though isn't unreasonably by any means.


The Samsung panels, however, are a nightmare in this regard and can easily retain imagery on screen from just a short viewing period.

IR should not even be considered an issue with any brand. Many polls have clearly demonstrated that even if IR is present it will not affect the viewing experience.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenjp /forum/post/15506879


There is something that happens when a high contrast image is on screen and you shut the TV off or switch to a blank input that causes a particular form of IR. I think it's some sort of residual charge left in the pixels that causes the persistent image, not an uneven "burn" as mjoc13 suggests.


I see this sort of thing occasionally if my room is darkened and I shut off the 360 from the dashboard - a very faint ghost/outline of the various shapes remain visible on the shut off TV for a short time. I also saw a logo version of it once, after watching a football game in the evening on NFL Network. We turned the TV off when the game was over, in the morning we turned on the 360 and I could make out a faint NFL logo in corner on the 360's bright white/pale green loading screen. It faded from view in a few seconds.


This on a set that never shows IR from HUDs or logos when changing channels, switching games, etc. I wish somebody who really understands how these screens work would chime in. I'm pretty sure this is a harmless phenomenon that bodes no ill for the future of these sets, but due to general lack of knowledge (my own included
) gets mixed in with the concerns about real burn in caused by drastically uneven phosphor wear and causes unecessary worry, handwringing, and LCD purchases



CBRYDR, I'd recommend switching to a channel without logos for a few seconds/a minute before shutting the TV off, see if that changes it.


jeff

This POST explains it....
 

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Originally Posted by dark1x

You really should not lump those three together as they each perform VERY different in regards to image retention. Even without the orbiter, it is very difficult to cause IR on a current generation Pioneer. It occurs much more easily on the Panasonic displays, though isn't unreasonably by any means.


The Samsung panels, however, are a nightmare in this regard and can easily retain imagery on screen from just a short viewing period.





Why is it kuro guys like yourself turn every rational discussion into a kuro is superior thread. Add to that, you make a point of attacking Samsung. Were I to post what pioneer says in their manual about IR you'd get apoplectic.


Plasma is another piece of technology that has it's plusses and minuses regardless of who implements it. That said I know you will go back to your kuro alter and curse that blasphemous discopaul!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/15509548

Originally Posted by dark1x

You really should not lump those three together as they each perform VERY different in regards to image retention. Even without the orbiter, it is very difficult to cause IR on a current generation Pioneer. It occurs much more easily on the Panasonic displays, though isn't unreasonably by any means.


The Samsung panels, however, are a nightmare in this regard and can easily retain imagery on screen from just a short viewing period.





Why is it kuro guys like yourself turn every rational discussion into a kuro is superior thread. Add to that, you make a point of attacking Samsung. Were I to post what pioneer says in their manual about IR you'd get apoplectic.


Plasma is another piece of technology that has it's plusses and minuses regardless of who implements it. That said I know you will go back to your kuro alter and curse that blasphemous discopaul!

I'll try and be unbiased with this post. I've never owned a Samsung so I really can't say if it is worse with IR or not. But there is a reputation that it is. Maybe a thread should be started on how "Reputations" grow and proliferate. I do remember some earlier models of Samsung had some voltage problems which induced severe IR. Maybe that is what started all this? Reputations are a funny thing. It only takes a few posts or threads.


That being said, I own the 9G Elite Kuro and it produces some serious short term IR (10-20 seconds resolved) if you have it in super torch mode.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/15509548


Why is it kuro guys like yourself turn every rational discussion into a kuro is superior thread. Add to that, you make a point of attacking Samsung. Were I to post what pioneer says in their manual about IR you'd get apoplectic.


Plasma is another piece of technology that has it's plusses and minuses regardless of who implements it. That said I know you will go back to your kuro alter and curse that blasphemous discopaul!



Ha ha, yes, I suppose it comes off like that. In reality, my point was related more to Samsung plasmas than anything else. From testing, I was quite shocked to see how susceptible to IR Samsung plasmas were as well as just how noisy/dirty of an image they produce. They should not be grouped with Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas, I feel. I'm not attempting to insult owners of these displays, but I do feel Samsung plasmas exhibit a number of serious flaws that would actually negatively influence a potential plasma buyer.


It matters not what Pioneer states in their manual as they are simply taking precautions. I can safely say that visible IR does not occur easily on the current Pioneer panels ever after extended PC usage without the orbiter. The Samsung panels, however, can exhibit severe IR (difficult to reverse) after a short period of time. Perhaps they will solve these issues with their 2009 models?


I should note that my post only reflects what I myself have experienced through heavy testing of various 2008 displays. I do not base my opinion on what I read around the internet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark1x /forum/post/15509913



I should note that my post only reflects what I myself have experienced through heavy testing of various 2008 displays. I do not base my opinion on what I read around the internet.

Exactly what type of testing would this be?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN /forum/post/15510102


Exactly what type of testing would this be?

Well, I primarily test in-store, but I also take advantage of displays owned by people that I know. I do not test in the professional manner, unfortunately, as I do not own the equipment necessary to do a proper calibration. I do the in-store testing about twice a year in order to cover various models released.


By in-store, I mean that I visit a local shop where a friend is employed and simply spend time working with various displays. I usually have a buddy with me and we bring in all of our own equipment in order to account for different sources. I general, I use a mix of test patterns, specific Blu-ray discs and DVDs, PC input, and gaming (of both the 30 and 60 fps variety). As noted, I could not possibly do a complete and proper calibration so instead I become somewhat familiar with a number of models via forums such as this in addition to relying on the equipment I DO bring and do a "light calibration". I'm not going for perfect accuracy in these tests, rather, looking for immediate flaws in the handling of demanding content.


I believe 60 frames per second games are actually one of the most demanding applications you can throw at a display and something that is never touched upon in any reviews. I also often use multiple machines in order to allow side-by-side comparisons.


As for image retention, well, I'm simply interested in determining how "safe" a plasma display may be when a static image is displayed for 20 minutes. Testing this is very difficult in a store, for obvious reasons. All of the Samsung models displayed image retention (visible on top of other content) after 20 minutes of static imagery. This did not occur in any of the other plasmas present. Of course, this isn't exactly scientific, but it certainly is interesting. Image retention easily occured on all of these panels even without using the static image test.


I think I was more surprised by the awful dithering that occurs in somewhat darker material. The problem is as severe as a 2005 Panasonic plasma, which is quite shocking indeed. This is unrelated to settings being used.


It's simply my approach to sizing up the various displays on the market using material I am quite familiar with. This allows me to spend quite a bit of time with each display using my own content with reasonable adjustments made to picture quality. At the very least, this method highlights differences between various brands almost immediately and flaws become quite clear. Of course, I approach each panel with "worse case" scenarios, so I'm sure with the right content all of them can look at least "good".


I actually enjoy doing this, by the way. There is no real purpose behind it other than self-information. Of course, I tend to upgrade displays every year (sell previous years model to other people). I've just upgraded to a Pioneer 5020fd from a 5080HD. I've owned 4 plasmas since 2006, actually, and 4 CRTs before that. A little crazy, I suppose. I finally feel as if I've reached a point where I can be satisfied, however. I've held onto my Sony CRT and I plan to hang onto my 9th gen Pioneer plasma. I don't expect to upgrade this year as there isn't anything really impressive in the cards at the moment.
 
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