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Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23240398


I wish S+V would just hire Ricci to measure the subs so we could better compare them to the other units he's tested.

S&V uses the same standard (CEA2010) but they report their results at 1m vs 2m as Ricci does so subtract 6db.


Aside from that there will always be some variations including, weather, mic placement, equipment, etc.


I know I have mapped the results of S&V's measurements before accounting for 1m vs 2m and they were actually pretty close to what Josh measured (within 1-2db across more frequencies).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23240602


In this case, there are some fairly large variations. Even subtracting 9dB from Brent's numbers (assuming peak instead of RMS as Josh reports as well as the 2m to 1m conversion), the numbers for the PB1000 show it significantly outperforming the PB12-NSD (as measured by Josh) in the 40-63Hz band and maintaining rough parity from 20-32Hz.

Yeah, it is not perfect
That is a big discrepancy



I have found that what SVS measured and what Josh measured are pretty close. I would use those sources when comparing subs when possible.
 

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Hi, guys. You can trust whoever's measurements you choose, but I will point out that I've made extensive and documented efforts to conform to the standards laid out in CEA-2010 and CEA-2010A.


A couple of important sentences taken from the CEA-2010A document ("ANSI/CEA Standard, Standard Method of Measurement for Powered Subwoofers, ANSI/CEA-2010A, July 2012," page 3):


"The peak SPL of the fundamental ± 3 Hz shall then be recorded." Peak, not RMS.


"This SPL shall be referenced to a 1 m ground plane level." 1 meter, not 2 meters or 3 meters.


I've purchased and read the CEA-2010 and CEA-2010A documents, and as explained in the article linked above, my practices and reporting methods conform to those documents.


The one exception I make is when measuring bass output of devices such as portable/compact products and soundbar subwoofers, in which case I measure at 1 meter because the
 

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I know that's something I'm having a hard time with. How does the PB-1000 measure higher numbers then the PB12-NSD while having a smaller cabinet, smaller driver and a amp with less power.

I'm a little puzzled.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249215


I know that's something I'm having a hard time with. How does the PB-1000 measure higher numbers then the PB12-NSD while having a smaller cabinet, smaller driver and a amp with less power.

I'm a little puzzled.

I've been on the fence about which sub / subs to purchase for my sealed 26 x 14 x 7 room and was thinking of starting with one PB-1000 and adding a second once upgraditis sets in. But at times I've wondered if the PB12-NSD would be a better choice. This review has me leaning heavily in favor of the PB-1000
but it does seem too good to be true
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249262


I've been on the fence about which sub / subs to purchase for my sealed 26 x 14 x 7 room and was thinking of starting with one PB-1000 and adding a second once upgraditis sets in. But at times I've wondered if the PB12-NSD would be a better choice. This review has me leaning heavily in favor of the PB-1000
but it does seem too good to be true

I'm not trying to knock any of the SVS subs, but if you are considering ordering a PB12-NSD I would suggest you strongly look at a PSA XV15. At 20hz both of these subs have the same output, but below 20hz and above 20hz the XV15 will out perform the PB12-NSD by quite a bit and only cost $30 more.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=66&mset=71

Take a look for yourself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249172


Hi Brent,


I think the problem people are having is with the apparent consistency we're seeing. As it is, you've measured the SVS PB1000, PB12-NSD, and PC13U. The results of simple averaging for the 20-32Hz band and 40-63Hz band are:


PB1000: 112.8dB/121.5dB

PB12-NSD: 111.0dB/118.1dB

PC13-Ultra: 116.8dB/125.8dB


Unless I'm missing something, you've got the PB1000 outperforming the PB12-NSD, and within about 4dB of the PC13U. Suffice it to say, that's a very interesting result.

I think this is due to 1m vs 2m. Per his PB12-NSD review he states:

" I measured the subwoofer with a Clio FW analyzer in stepped sine mode using ground plane technique, with the sub on the ground and the microphone 2 meters from the front of the sub, and the measurement smoothed to 1/6th of an octave."


Add 6db? If you do that your averages are:

PB12-NSD: 117.0dB/124.1dB


Which seems about right vs a PB1000.


From the PB-1000 review:

"Measurements were made at 3 meters and scaled up to represent the results at 1 meter. Averages were calculated in pascals as per CEA-2010A spec."


From the PC-13 Ultra:

" Measurements were made at 2 meters; I added 6 dB to scale the measurements to the 1-meter reporting standard mandated by CEA-2010."
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249306


I'm not trying to knock any of the SVS subs, but if you are considering ordering a PB12-NSD I would suggest you strongly look at a PSA XV15. At 20hz both of these subs have the same output, but below 20hz and above 20hz the XV15 will out perform the PB12-NSD by quite a bit and only cost $30 more.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=66&mset=71

Take a look for yourself.

Thanks jbrown15, I hear you but I'm in Canada and actually very close to the Canadian distributor for SVS so I can pick up the PB-1000 for $499 CAD and the PB12-NSD for $749. Pretty much every other ID sub company will ship to Canada but generally I'd be looking at an additional $300 or so for duties / shipping.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249398


Thanks jbrown15, I hear you but I'm in Canada and actually very close to the Canadian distributor for SVS so I can pick up the PB-1000 for $499 CAD and the PB12-NSD for $749. Pretty much every other ID sub company will ship to Canada but generally I'd be looking at an additional $300 or so for duties / shipping.

Well that makes it easy



If it was me, I would get one PB-12NSD now and you can always add another later. The PB-1000 is no slouch for the price, but if you have the money I would go with the better sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249398


Thanks jbrown15, I hear you but I'm in Canada and actually very close to the Canadian distributor for SVS so I can pick up the PB-1000 for $499 CAD and the PB12-NSD for $749. Pretty much every other ID sub company will ship to Canada but generally I'd be looking at an additional $300 or so for duties / shipping.

If that's the case defiantly go with the PB12-NSD, unless you were close to the border where you could have it shipped somewhere in the US and just drive down and get it. Remember you'd only be paying the tax when bringing it across the border no duties. And you'll be paying the same taxes when you buy a SV sub too. But if you're not close to the border or don't want to bother with the hassle the SVS is still a great sub!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23249435


If that's the case defiantly go with the PB12-NSD, unless you were close to the border where you could have it shipped somewhere in the US and just drive down and get it. Remember you'd only be paying the tax when bringing it across the border no duties. And you'll be paying the same taxes when you buy a SV sub too. But if you're not close to the border or don't want to bother with the hassle the SVS is still a great sub!

I was ready to pull the trigger on a pair of PB-1000s but did some research on the XV15, I contacted PSA and got a very thorough response from Tom V. like many others here and now I'm stumped.


I've bumped my budget to $1100 ALL IN and the choice is now:


Two SVS PB-1000's- $1100

One PSA XV-15- $1040


One HSU VTF3-MK4

One HSU VTF15H

(waiting to get a quote from HSU for delivery to my location, but I'm sure the MK4 will be less than $1000, and the 15H could be close to my max)


So it is really now a question of TWO less expensive subs VS ONE higher performing sub. I've made 3 runs of sub cable to the back half of the room so I have several options for placement if that has any bearing on the one vs two sub decision. I can place a sub/subs in any corner/corners as well as at the mid way point of each wall +/1 a few feet each way.


Any thoughts? My room is about two weeks from completion and I'm really unsure of what to do.



Here is some info on my room/needs/wants: 27' x 14 x 7 room that is completely sealed, no windows and just one door. It’s in the basement, has poured concrete on 3 sides (exterior walls) with studs, insulation and drywall all around on all 4 walls. The 4th wall is an interior wall adjacent to the furnace/mechanical room.

I have the following energy speakers and a Yamaha RXV-667 (for now, I may add an external amp for the front stage at some point):

Pair of CF-50 Fronts

Center CC-10

Side Surrounds CR-10

Rear Surrounds CB-20


The main seating position is in the front half of the rectangle about 12 ft from the 14’ wall which has a screen and the front speakers. The back half of the room will have a card table. Use will be a mix of movies, sports and music with music (specifically concert videos) being most important. I typically listen at -20 and occasionally at -15 and rarely if ever at reference levels.
 

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Quote:
I've bumped my budget to $1100 ALL IN and the choice is now:


Two SVS PB-1000's- $1100

One PSA XV-15- $1040

. . .

Any thoughts?


... 27' x 14 x 7 room that is completely sealed, no windows and just one door.
Your room is 2,646 cu.ft. My basement HT room is ~15' x 30' x 7.5 = ~3,375 cu.ft., and I used to run a single, older (325W, BASH-powered) PB12-NSD in it. The PB12 was great in that space, but I felt that it was just a little overwhelmed by it. Although I never got to find out, I'm very certain that dual PB12s would have been awesome.


According to Ed Mullen , the PB-1000 is similar to the PB12-NSD, but with less overall output:
Quote:
The PB-1000 performance envelope (FR, max output, bandwidth uniformity) is similar to the PB12-NSD - it just can't play quite as loud. So if you love the PB12-NSD's overall performance characteristics, you'll feel right at home with a PB-1000.

IMO, dual PB-1000s in your ~700 cu.ft. smaller room should work very well. And they'll give you smoother FR at the listening position vs. a single sub.


That said, if $1,100 is the budget only for this purchase, and you think there might be a second sub not too far down the road, go with the XV15. By all accounts, it's a hell of a performer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1469668/interesting-review#post_23274610


agreed with above! 2 subs minimum in that room. if your budget is 1100.00 and no chance of purchasing another sub down the road, then by all means go with the pb1000's. however if you can come up with the cash later, get one xv15 now, then another later.

If I bought the XV-15 today I'd probably not buy another down the road simply because I'd feel a bit odd about having two nearly 100lb subs in my space (not that there is anything wrong with that, or 4 x 200lb subs for that matter
), its just that I already feel like my 7 speakers will may look a bit "over the top" for my tastes. Come to think about it, I should have added a pair of SB-1000's to my options.


This is a tough one!
 

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Seems pretty straightforward to me: Dual PB-1000s!



Although both the PB-1000 and SB-1000 reportedly have good output and work well with both music and movies, I'd pick the PBs over the SBs if only because you'll get usable sub-20Hz extension with the PBs while, with the SBs, the size of the room may result in insufficient gain to let them dig usably as deep.


With movies, having extension below 20Hz is very satisfying.
 
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