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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The discussions really show how some people feel about D-VHS. A good number of people just simply dislike tape for no apparant reason. Some have some good reasons. Others think that DVD is HDTV, and ask why anybody needs quality beyond DVD, as it's so excellent.


It's an interresting read if you wade through it, although it's sad to say that most don't quite understand the technology. It's unfortunate that the opinions of the mass might kill D-VHS before it has a chance to breathe.

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/06/0219237.shtml


Enjoy [?]


-Jon
 

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99% Slashdot posters are complete idiots when it comes to any HDTV related issue. I hope some people that frequent this site can help enlighten them.
 

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There are the smarts, and the stupids.

Being educated does not mean you are smart.


It has been said that a little knowledge is dangerous.


It has also been proven that the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know.


I do hope D-VHS makes it.

Tape is the most cost effective way of storage. Yes, as technology improves, like the Hard Drive, and DVD, tape sat idle. Now D-VHS is back.


When it comes to cost vs 1 GB of data, the lower will win.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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99% Slashdot posters are complete idiots when it comes to any HDTV related issue
The problem is that these %99 also represent %99 of consumers, who have the "I don't want those nasty black bars - show me the whole movie" syndrome.


The general population has never had a good track record for making educated decisions. If people would go out there, take 5 minutes to learn, and another 5 minutes to think about it, I strongly believe that people would realize the merits of new technologies. Based on that new knowledge and understanding I'd be happy to kick D-VHS if it failed, as the people would have made an educated choice. Being killed off due to ignorance is just a plain shame.


-Jon
 

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I think the bigger problem is that slash dot posters *should* be more educated than the average bear. If these geeks are as misinformed as the thread makes it seem, then joe 6 pack is 100% in the dark...and that's a problem.

TM
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
I think the bigger problem is that slash dot posters *should* be more educated than the average bear. If these geeks are as misinformed as the thread makes it seem, then joe 6 pack is 100% in the dark...and that's a problem.
Well, it's expected. Even here at avsforums, how many people really know a reasonable amount about color (temperature, coordinates, matching, response of human eyes, etc)? I'd bet that not very many know more than a nickle's worth, yet we're all here because we love films (and the like...).


And, not to slam anyone, but avsforum is most likely no different in the average bear department. I think the big difference about avsforum is that most people are here to learn and share ideas, not to spout opinions on technologies which they don't understand or to get "first post." I'm an average bear - I know very little color theory/application, but I'd gladly pay [in beers :D] if someone wanted to educate me, and I certainly wouldn't spout an uneducated opinion.


It's that "first post" mentality which makes me sweat when I realize they're making decisions regarding the future of D-VHS.


I think that while D-VHS isn't a perfect solution, they're the first to step up to the plate, and it's a real solution which is here right now. I don't want to see it slammed because some geek doesn't understand tapes and want to be able to get free copies of everything.


-Jon
 

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There is a thread in DVDtalk.com's forums that borders on the pathetic. The hysteria surrounding the format is sickening. You'd think D-VHS was owned and operated by NAMBLA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ick... that is a vomitous thread. I particularly enjoyed your last post, Matt. Don't ever mention that there are still people out there who believe LPs have superior sound when compared to CDs (in regards to the "step backwards" argument, not analog vs. digital ;-)


-Jon
 

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Ugh, Jon, I would be one of those wackos who can hear sound on LPs that *is part of the music* that simply isn't reproduced on CDs. I also hate tape irrationally. I also gave up LPs ages ago anyway and have everything recorded on a hard drive.


I have no interest in D-VHS, expect that I think it's a good baby step toward recordable HD. In the meantime, I use the computer to record HD without copy protection.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
rogo,


That's what I mean - a "step backwards" doesn't mean it's a worse technology. I'd agree - LPs have a much more musical sense, but it's something I'd personally only notice if I were listening critically. But still, it's there - a definite difference. The key point here is that you most likely have listened, compared, and done a bit of research on the matter, THEN drawn a conclusion. Perhaps LPs are better, but digitized is much more convenient. Great! I might not agree, but it's a well formed opinion, which I've great respect for.


I'd wager that fewer than %5 of the people commenting on D-VHS have even seen the image it produces. There are just too many people out there who say "I just hate it, it should die" without even trying it out.


[that last paragraph was a bit of a vent - sorry].


It almost makes me want to put out a public service announcement. "Did you know that you can use D-VHS just like your home VCR, but get _substantially_ better picture? Look - razor sharp! And all for the low price of..." Well, maybe it wouldn't work ;-)


-Jon
 

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LP's only sound better if they are played on very high end machines. The average consumer decks were very poor compared to what you can get with CD's.
 

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Yes, Matt, but when I bought my last turntable it was a Linn. When I played records for people (late 80s), they loved the sound of my new "CD system." (LOL).


I usually wouldn't bother to tell people the truth because they didn't believe it. Occasionally, I'd run an A-B test for people with the same album (archaic term I suppose) and 3 out of 4 picked the Graceland and Brothers in Arms LPs over the corresponding CDs.


Regardless, today I will happily listen to well-encoded 192kbps MP3s for the convenience. I'd also happily pay for a subscription service that let me increase my permanent collection for a reasonable per-song price if any of the record companies want to actually offer such a thing. :)


In the meantime, Jon, I am not going to invest in D-VHS because it is too much money for what I feel it offers me. I tolerable an over-compressed signal from DirecTV jammed onto my Tivo and line-doubled in mediocre fashion by my Toshiba HDTV not because it's a good picture (it often looks like crap), but because I'd rather suffer bad PQ than be a slave to either the primetime schedule or to commercials (I know, Mr. Turner guy, I'm a thief in your mind).


Someday, we'll have the best of all worlds (with a little copy protection thrown in) and then I'll invest in digital recording. In the meantime, DVDs are really nice and the occasional HD I enjoy takes my breath away (but usually brings commercials back into my life).


Mark
 

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D-VHS


I got a JVC HM-DH3000U on sale at J&R for $1199.00


you really should check out the PQ : they give you a demo tape with the unit and the picture is better than any source I have seen


admittedly in its infancy, this format may never make it, but its ability to display a stellar picture with digital sound is a fact


Mark:)
 

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When we can combine the JVC with a HD-PVR (like the one JVC is designing), then we will have a killer HD recording setup that will be worth every dang penny. I will but the D-VHS deck once that PVR is released. Until then, i have no way to record any High Definition material, so the deck is useless to me.
 

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Mark,

Have you had problems with dropouts on your 30K? I just got mine yesterday and found the 1st 1/2 of the tape played perfectly (one complete showing of the demo) but the 2nd 1/2 (the second repeated demo) showed 2 video and 1 audio glitch but has now increased to 15-20 video glitches and several additional audio. They're all concentrated in and around the N.Y. segment. I'm really concerned about what's causing this.
 

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Hey Ken


I watched the NYC segment at 25:00 and repeated at 57:00- no video glitches seen


I heard 1 audio glitch at 29:29 but that is editing I think


will continue to check it out


Mark
 

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I want DVHS to make it. Why? To bring HD to the masses in a form the can connect with. The MORE HD capable stuff out there the better.


DVHS is cost effective for storage. It has gobs of capacity. The JVC deck makes stunning SD recordings, and as a user with a big dish I appreciate that as it allows me to make recordings of shows I like (like Buffy) that look BETTER than the DVDs they put out. The only draw back is that it has no integraded HD tuner. If they release a unit with one I'll upgrade to that for sure.


Face it, the HD-DVD guys are a long way from any kind of agreement. "The Blue Laser MPEG2" camp -vs- "The Red Laser MPEG4" camp battle is far from over.


From a money standpoint I expect the MPEG4 guys to win. Hardware requires no new transport. Fab facilites need not change. Only codecs and authoring tools need change. Blue laser needs : new authoring tools, new transports, new fab facilites and new codecs. Blue costs more, MPEG4 (or something like it) will win. Regardless of some missinformed petitions on the net by people who do not understand the technology and have not seen it as I have; and it rocks.


But until that day comes DVHS is here NOW. JVC can deliver HD recording and playback to the masses NOW. Not in a few years. Not when some forums gets their act togther. Now. And future JVC decks will support DVI/HDCP (and you're fooling yourself if you think an online petition will stop it).


Until now the adoption of HD sets has been driven by DVD. Period. Sure, we all want HD from the networks, but we all know how well that's going. If JVC can deliver this and kick start the DVHS/HD movement then it may usher in an accelerated adoption of HD sets for actually watching HD content. That is good. Now they need to license the bajesus out of the techology like they did when they crushed Sony Beta like a bug.
 

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Obviously the people on Slashdot do not appreciate quality. I know it's been posted before, but I agree that these people think that DVD 480p or 480i is the exact same as 1080i HDTV. I've worked in broadcasting for the past 30 years, and I can vividly remember when 2" wide tapes on heavy reels were used just record and playback programs. The machines themselves cost $100,000 and the tapes had to playback with 5 to 7 seconds of pre-roll just to lock to a decent picture before the program material started(and that was standard NTSC video). There has been a great evolution of broadcast equipment up to today's HD-Beta and D-5 machines. For consumers to be able to record and playback HDTV picures at home is a phenomenal feat. I know people can today record from a Mitsubishi set to their D-VHS machines ota programs such as CSI and The Tonight Show and play them back with the exact HDTV quality that was broadcast. JVC has thrown a wrinkle in that won't allow D-Theater tapes to play in the Mitsubishi machine, but any tape recorded with the Mits will play on the JVC. D-Theater with it's higher than broadcast bit rate is the state of the art. The people on Slashdot probably have $200 TV's and have never even seen NTSC video look decent. All they know is DVD has features they like and the picture is better than VHS.
 
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