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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just installed a new Epson 5030UB projector and Panasonic DMP-BDT330 Blu-Ray player. So far the 3D on the Blu-Ray disc I've tried looks great but I see there is a lot of interesting looking content on YouTube and my DMP-BDT330 can access it. I tried to download a few files on my Mac and copied them to a flash drive. The first one I tried, LG 3D Demo - Stratos (Space), played perfectly in gorgeous 3D. I was very happy. The second one I tried, Americas National Parks 3D 1x02 Yosemite National Park, simply displays the raw 2D side by side image. I set the player to side by side mode, but no change. Setting the projector to 3D kicks it into 3D mode, but I still only see the two side by side images, just brighter.

I next tried viewing them directly from YouTube using the YouTube app. One demo video worked perfectly, displaying a big snake about a foot from my face. But all the others I tried only displayed the raw side by side images.

So I know 3D can work, but not why some do and some don't. I wonder if anyone here is using a similar configuration to successfully view YouTube 3D or is YouTube still not quite up to the task? I don't see any options for selecting 3D modes when using the Blu-Ray player to access these videos.
 

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You want to select the SBS 3D option in the projector not the BR player. Let the projector combine the two images from the files.
 

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If you have a PC that you can connect through your AVR's HDMI port, you can use Cyberlink Power DVD as a player. In Power DVD there is a social media tab which has Youtube as an option. My computer has an Nvidia card which also must be set to 3D 720P for this to work correctly on my Epson 5020. Power DVD also has a 3D setting which must be activated. For 3D SBS you will also need to set it to this in the Power DVD settings as well, as in my experience, the auto setting won't necessarily self adjust. Don't be put off by the fact that Power DVD does 3D at 720p. If it is good 3D content, it can look quite good.

For those of us that are 3D Youtube content creators, the 1080 half frame side by side format is what we use for 3D uploads. I wish I could use a full frame MVC format with Youtube but, unfortunately, that is not allowed. One of my biggest beefs with YT is that is takes pristine high bitrate content and reprocesses/recompresses it to where it is no longer sharp. Since most of what I do is underwater content, this is not as noticable but, for non underwater content, it can be almost cringeworthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you have a PC that you can connect through your AVR's HDMI port, you can use Cyberlink Power DVD as a player. In Power DVD there is a social media tab which has Youtube as an option. My computer has an Nvidia card which also must be set to 3D 720P for this to work correctly on my Epson 5020. Power DVD also has a 3D setting which must be activated. For 3D SBS you will also need to set it to this in the Power DVD settings as well, as in my experience, the auto setting won't necessarily self adjust. Don't be put off by the fact that Power DVD does 3D at 720p. If it is good 3D content, it can look quite good.

For those of us that are 3D Youtube content creators, the 1080 half frame side by side format is what we use for 3D uploads. I wish I could use a full frame MVC format with Youtube but, unfortunately, that is not allowed. One of my biggest beefs with YT is that is takes pristine high bitrate content and reprocesses/recompresses it to where it is no longer sharp. Since most of what I do is underwater content, this is not as noticable but, for non underwater content, it can be almost cringeworthy.
We are a PC free home. All Macs here and none in the theater though I have a spare mac mini I've considered adding to the mix. My Apple TV seems to do most of what I would want the Mini to do though so I'm not too excited by the prospect.

As for YouTube 3D quality, the samples I was able to make work looked pretty good - though not Blu-Ray good of course. My main gripe was that I saw a lot of compression artifacts on one of the demo files. That seems to be a function of the original source quality. Some files look great, other not so much, even in 2D.
 

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As for YouTube 3D quality, the samples I was able to make work looked pretty good - though not Blu-Ray good of course. My main gripe was that I saw a lot of compression artifacts on one of the demo files. That seems to be a function of the original source quality. Some files look great, other not so much, even in 2D.
A lot of things on YT are pretty poor quality going in and will only be made worse by it, but you'd be amazed how much YT will compress and degrade good content. It's just the nature of the beast. Forinstance, on the YT videos you have watched and thought they looked pretty good but not BD quality, I can almost guarantee that they were BD quality before they went into it. I usually like to go into YT with bitrate content of at around 30mbps. After YT gets done converting it, it's lucky to end up as 8mbps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A lot of things on YT are pretty poor quality going in and will only be made worse by it, but you'd be amazed how much YT will compress and degrade good content. It's just the nature of the beast. Forinstance, on the YT videos you have watched and thought they looked pretty good but not BD quality, I can almost guarantee that they were BD quality before they went into it. I usually like to go into YT with bitrate content of at around 30mbps. After YT gets done converting it, it's lucky to end up as 8mbps.
Recognizing the limitations of internet bandwidth I don't mind some reduction in quality as long as the end product looks "good enough" and streams reliably. Visible compression artifacts however are not acceptable. They take what should be decent looking video and make it ugly and unwatchable. At best it’s a big distraction when watching.
 

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Recognizing the limitations of internet bandwidth I don't mind some reduction in quality as long as the end product looks "good enough" and streams reliably. Visible compression artifacts however are not acceptable. They take what should be decent looking video and make it ugly and unwatchable. At best it’s a big distraction when watching.
Couldn't agree more on those compression atrifacts! The only thing I generally stream is YT and then mostly to watch 3D content some of the other 3D guys on the forum put up. We have some pretty talented people in our group. To me, the biggest problem with YT isn't so much artifacting but the softening of the video. A couple of weeks ago, I put a new 3D one on YT and it was softened so much, I took it down and revised it by adding additional sharpening- more than what I would normally like to do. I put it back up and it was soft again. Just can't win! That being said, last week I started watching the Stargate series with my 15 year old son who's gotten into that lately (season one). We watched it on Amazon, since we have Amazon Prime. Certainly watchable, even on our 133" screen but definitely compressed, soft, and some of those pesky artifacts here and there. Streaming certainly has its advantages, but quality isn't one of them. Although, from what I hear, Amazon is a bit weak when compared to others.

On another subject, I think you have got yourself a real winner with that 5030 for both 3D and 2D. I love the 5020 and from what I understand, the 5030 has taken it a notch further. On the forum, I'm constantly hearing people complaining about 3D crosstalk from their flat panels and projectors, not to mention heavy and uncomfortable glasses On the Epson, it's virtually nonexistent:) Seeing it is an extremely rare event. Also, the glasses are light weight and not the least bit uncomfortable, in my opinion. On my 27 inch Asus editing monitors, with regard to crosstalk, the opposite is true. I used to make it a point to use stereoscopic adjustment to adjust it out when editing 3D until I realized that I would never see it when watching through the projector. Now, when I see it during an edit, I just ignore it. I have no doubt that you're going to get a lot of enjoyment out of that projector!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Streaming certainly has its advantages, but quality isn't one of them. Although, from what I hear, Amazon is a bit weak when compared to others.

On another subject, I think you have got yourself a real winner with that 5030 for both 3D and 2D. I love the 5020 and from what I understand, the 5030 has taken it a notch further. On the forum, I'm constantly hearing people complaining about 3D crosstalk from their flat panels and projectors, not to mention heavy and uncomfortable glasses On the Epson, it's virtually nonexistent:) Seeing it is an extremely rare event. Also, the glasses are light weight and not the least bit uncomfortable, in my opinion. On my 27 inch Asus editing monitors, with regard to crosstalk, the opposite is true. I used to make it a point to use stereoscopic adjustment to adjust it out when editing 3D until I realized that I would never see it when watching through the projector. Now, when I see it during an edit, I just ignore it. I have no doubt that you're going to get a lot of enjoyment out of that projector!!
I've yet to try 3D from Amazon or Netflix. I'm just now trying to get comfortable with the whole 3D thing and being a bit of a cheapskate I think it's best to practice with the free stuff on YouTube for now, despite the limitations. I also have an Apple TV and the one 2D movie I rented there looked pretty darn good. I don't know if Apple offers anything in 3D yet.

I will agree that I'm quite impressed by the 5030UB so far. The blu-ray movies I've watched so far have looked amazing. I've been hearing about this "3D crosstalk" issue but have no idea what it is. I've yet to see anything "funny" so far but I'm just getting started with 3D.
 

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I've been hearing about this "3D crosstalk" issue but have no idea what it is. I've yet to see anything "funny" so far but I'm just getting started with 3D.
Crosstalk is also referred to as ghosting, where you see a sort of transparent double image in some parts of a scene. Usually, this will be an intermittent event. However, on that projector, you may NEVER have the crosstalk experience. I would suggest that you stay away from any non OEM glasses. I tried some once and got terrible crosstalk. When I paused on it and put on the OEM glasses, the crosstalk vanished.

Oh, and when I referred to Amazon streaming, I didn't mean 3D, I meant 2D with that one. Like you, my only 3D streaming is with Youtube.

Cheapskate or not, now you're going to have to buy some 3D blurays-lol!! At least Avatar!
 

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So I know 3D can work, but not why some do and some don't. I wonder if anyone here is using a similar configuration to successfully view YouTube 3D or is YouTube still not quite up to the task? I don't see any options for selecting 3D modes when using the Blu-Ray player to access these videos.
It's about properly tagging videos and adding the require metadata to the video stream so that stereoscopic 3D players can detect the stream is stereoscopic and automatically activate the 3D mode.
There is a big issue about Youtube's 3D mode, it's because their 3D feature isn't an official feature, it's a small addition done by one of their employees on his spare time. this developper added this mode to the flash video player they used at the time, and added some specific tags users had to include when they upload their videos.
When these tags were detected, Youtube provides an additional configuration option to control the 3D. You could choose various display modes (side by side, interlaced, anaglyph), and there was also a mode that allows you to simply watch the video in 2D. This way you could use the same video file, the same page, the same view cout and the same user comments for both 2D and 3D.
Youtube even added a specific search filter for stereoscopic 3D videos.
People creating and uploading stereosopic 3D videos were very happy about that feature, and added the tags systematically.

But then Youtube switched to an html5 based video player, they made a little something for Nvidia 3D Vision users (which is often broken) but they didn't include the rest of the features.
As more and more browsers switched to html5, people started to notice the stereosopic 3D options were gone, and stopped using the special 3D tags, because it doesn't do anything. If you want to watch a 3D video on Youtube you have to manually activate it in your TV anyway so why bother ?
It's a real shame because all the flash based features are still here, you just need to configure your browser to force the use of flash for video instead of html5 : there are plugins for most major browsers that allow you to switch back and forth between flash video and html5 video.

I think the lack of visible automatic action by youtube and many other video players is the reason why so many stereosopcic 3D videos still don't have their tags and metadata set correctly.
 

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I think the lack of visible automatic action by youtube and many other video players is the reason why so many stereosopcic 3D videos still don't have their tags and metadata set correctly.
Thanks, this was a very informative post!

As you said, when uploading 3D you used to have to add a specific tag. Sometime back, Youtube changed this so now instead of having to add that tag when uploading 3D, you now click on the advanced tab and there is a selection menu for 3D options. We choose the option that says that the video we're uploading is "Already 3D." The only kind that it will let you do is SBS. Some people have uploaded full frame SBS, but it will generally not be possible to correctly watch this. Half frame SBS is the standard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's about properly tagging videos and adding the require metadata to the video stream so that stereoscopic 3D players can detect the stream is stereoscopic and automatically activate the 3D mode.
There is a big issue about Youtube's 3D mode, it's because their 3D feature isn't an official feature, it's a small addition done by one of their employees on his spare time. this developper added this mode to the flash video player they used at the time, and added some specific tags users had to include when they upload their videos.
When these tags were detected, Youtube provides an additional configuration option to control the 3D. You could choose various display modes (side by side, interlaced, anaglyph), and there was also a mode that allows you to simply watch the video in 2D. This way you could use the same video file, the same page, the same view cout and the same user comments for both 2D and 3D.
Youtube even added a specific search filter for stereoscopic 3D videos.
People creating and uploading stereosopic 3D videos were very happy about that feature, and added the tags systematically.

But then Youtube switched to an html5 based video player, they made a little something for Nvidia 3D Vision users (which is often broken) but they didn't include the rest of the features.
As more and more browsers switched to html5, people started to notice the stereosopic 3D options were gone, and stopped using the special 3D tags, because it doesn't do anything. If you want to watch a 3D video on Youtube you have to manually activate it in your TV anyway so why bother ?
It's a real shame because all the flash based features are still here, you just need to configure your browser to force the use of flash for video instead of html5 : there are plugins for most major browsers that allow you to switch back and forth between flash video and html5 video.

I think the lack of visible automatic action by youtube and many other video players is the reason why so many stereosopcic 3D videos still don't have their tags and metadata set correctly.
Thanks for the history lesson! I have since found that the trick when videos don't play correctly is to go into the menus on my projector and tell it to treat the video as SBS 3D. It's a bit of a pain, but it does work. Out of about 6 videos I downloaded and tested recently I needed to do that for about 25% of them.
 
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