Is a seperate amp worth it with my set-up?



Quote:
Originally Posted by FHT123 /forum/post/15394335


Might be a stupid question but....


I am debating using a separate amp with my set-up but want advice from others on it.....


Here is my setup:

Polk RTiA9s

Polk CSiA6

Yamaha 663 (if i dont go with separate amp I will upgrade to higher-end receiver)


Is it worth it? What do I gain out of using a separate amp? Just louder sound, or better sound quality?


Thanks guys.

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It depends on how demanding your speakers are. Are they 8ohm or 4ohm. What is the sensitivity of those speakers.


The sound quality depends on how good the pre-outs from the 663 are.

if you get a neutral amp then the sound is pretty much dictated by the pre-processor which in your case is 663 and the speakers.


I have the 663. I dont think it has a great DAC. There was one guy who tried 661 and rotel amp and didnt see a big difference with the amp or when driven by 661 alone, except at very very high volumes. So if your speakers are not power hungry and if you dont play loud enough to annoy your neighbors, you should be fine with the 663. Expensive receivers provide more power and more bells and whistles. More power does not equate to better sound quality as they would still use a so so DAC like the low end receivers. They dont use toroidal transformers unless you go to the very high end model. Not all receivers use the Burr Brown DACs and not all Burr Brown implementations sound exceptionally good.

Your A9s would certainly come alive with more power. I don't know what your present receiver has power wise. Your speakers have 6 drivers in each side and 3 of them are woofers, and they like power. They are rated for 50-500 watts, do you think 75 or even 100 watts will drive them just fine? Try 200 or even more if you want to hear what these speakers can do.


I was in the same boat as you several months ago, trying to decide which AVR to upgrade to. I had been using an HK AVR 520 (75wpc x5) with some easy to drive Infinity IL40s in the front and IL30s in the surrounds. Looking over the prices for anything having at least 100wpc was a shock. I wasn't prepared to buy something with features that would be outdated in a few years.


Thats when I started looking around for a separate amp, which led me to these forums. The inexpensive Emotiva line intrigued me no end. How could anyone could make such inexpensive amps?


I read all I could on the Emotiva line, and ended up buying a UPA-7 about a month ago. It has enough power for my speakers, 125wpc x7. I'll never look back now! It'll always be separates for me. I can buy the latest inexpensive AVR that has preamp output, and have the latest sound and not lose power in the transistion.


My latest buy was an HK AVR 247 I'm using as a pre/pro. It works great, has all the codecs I need, hdmi switching, and configures much easier than the 520 ever could. Cost? $205. I still have the 5.1 speaker setup and that won't change, but I have 2 extra channels I can play with. I hooked up my 4 JBL E50s last week in 2 channel just to hear what they would sound like. They sounded very good. Damn good in fact. Never sounded like that with the 520. You can't do that with a receiver.


So don't let anyone talk you out of an external amp if that is where your interest lay. I thought my old 520 sounded pretty good, and really it did. But I wasn't prepared for the level of improvement I got in sound quality. I get thumping bass even at low levels, the low bass above the sub level had always been lacking, something I had accepted, but no more. I get a full range of sound stage and presence that was lacking before.

I always wondered how an amp can make a difference to the sound quality!


In my opinion if a receiver is used as a pre-pro, then the same receiver when used to drive the same speakers should sound similar except that you cant play at very high volumes. How does adding more power bring in the bass that once was lacking or improve the sound stage which was once lacking?


In my opinion a more powerful amp just enables you to play the speakers louder. Louder does not mean better sound quality. If a speaker has pretty much a flat response across the frequency range, it will have a flat response no matter what volume you play at. It just plays louder with more power.


Help me understand how more power equates to better sound quality.


I have the 663 and Klipsch RB81. Unlike a typical horn tweeter, the RB81's are a lot smoother. The highs are crisp and clear even at low volumes. I dont need more power as these are 8ohm and with a sensitivity of over 90.


Now if I get an emotiva or rotel 2ch amp like RB-1070 how is it going to change the way the RB81 sounds. I am using a Sunfire sub. So I will be connecting only the RB81's to the amp and also the signal I will be feeding the amp will be already cut at the cross over of 80Hz by the 663. So the speakers will not be handling anyting under 80Hz. That will be handled by the sub. I dont want to spend some $700 if it not going to make any difference.


Hope I am not stealing the thread from the OP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/15400919


Exactly. And more power will help avoid clipping. Avoiding clipping is desirable for your speakers and your ears.


There are more theories about this, but it all boils down to having enough power to play your system loud enough.


Also note that movies and music have dynamic peaks that have to be accounted for.

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so how does having more power improve the sound quality. if the amp is neutral it basically does nothing to the sound. right? So if I just use the same AVR to drive the speakers instead of using the AVR as a pre-pro, I should get the same sound quality. right? Only difference is I will be playing at low volume. I have a small room and even if the SPL meter reads 70db it is very

loud to me. So I am not going to the extent of clipping if I am playing at 70db. In that case I very much doubt if a separate amp would make any difference to the sound quality.


Also like I said I am going to drive the sub using the AVR as I cant hook up a sub to the amp as I am sending only above 80Hz to the amp. Even if the amp has pre-outs, I dont want to send full range to the amp (to hook up to the sub) as my speakers are bookshelf speakers. So I am not going to bother connecting the sub to the amp.


So basically I am just going to hook up the front speakers playing only above 80Hz on them. Will a separate amp make any difference at all in my case. I just want to avoid an unnecessary item.



Quote:
Originally Posted by naturephoto1 /forum/post/15401093


A more powerful amp may allow for cleaner sound reproduction and also provide more reserve to the speakers when the power is required.


Rich

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I guess it is the quality of the amp that enables to reproduce the sound

better. I could buy a 100 wpc amp or 2ch receiver from CC or Radioshack for $200.

That is not going to reproduce the sound better than a 70 wpc Rotel RB-1050

or the 60 wpc RA-1062 (2ch int. amp)


Even if an amp does 100% reproduction how can it sound better than the

AVR as the sound that is being reproduced is basically coming from the

analog outputs of the AVR.


If all an amp is doing is take the analog outputs of the AVR (i.e pre-outs) and amplify it more and sending it to the speakers, how can the speaker sound any better? The speaker should have the same sound quality if it were hooked to the AVR as it is getting basically the same sound that is sent to the amp. Like I said only difference is that the AVR plays at lower volume levels. Only when I play the AVR at very high volumes I will start noticing some distortion. But if I am not cranking up beyond 70db I am no where near the limits of the AVR. Also my speakers are 8ohm with a sensitivity of over 90.

I just dont see any reason why a amp should make it sound better if I am using the same AVR as a pre-pro. Even if I had a power hungry speaker, I should not see any change in sound quality at low volumes.


Anyway... I am not convinced that spending some $699 on a 75lb monster is going to improve the sound quality of my Klipsch R81 speakers or any other speakers that I can easily drive with my 663.


Good luck to the OP



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi /forum/post/15401208


I guess it is the quality of the amp that enables to reproduce the sound

better. I could buy a 100 wpc amp or 2ch receiver from CC or Radioshack for $200.

That is not going to reproduce the sound better than a 70 wpc Rotel RB-1050

or the 60 wpc RA-1062 (2ch int. amp)


Even if an amp does 100% reproduction how can it sound better than the

AVR as the sound that is being reproduced is basically coming from the

analog outputs of the AVR.


If all an amp is doing is take the analog outputs of the AVR (i.e pre-outs) and amplify it more and sending it to the speakers, how can the speaker sound any better? The speaker should have the same sound quality if it were hooked to the AVR as it is getting basically the same sound that is sent to the amp. Like I said only difference is that the AVR plays at lower volume levels. Only when I play the AVR at very high volumes I will start noticing some distortion. But if I am not cranking up beyond 70db I am no where near the limits of the AVR. Also my speakers are 8ohm with a sensitivity of over 90.

I just dont see any reason why a amp should make it sound better if I am using the same AVR as a pre-pro. Even if I had a power hungry speaker, I should not see any change in sound quality at low volumes.


Anyway... I am not convinced that spending some $699 on a 75lb monster is going to improve the sound quality of my Klipsch R81 speakers or any other speakers that I can easily drive with my 663.


Good luck to the OP

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*

I guess you will never know why it is that some of us buy and will continue to buy external amps. Unless you just try it for yourself.


I had the same attitude toward external amps before buying one. I don't have that attitude any more. Now I know.


Sort of the question I get about my hotrod, the 2 wheeler one.


Why do I ride?


Cause I can.


Why a Harley?


Well, if you gotta ask, you won't understand anyway.

On low to medium priced receivers the amp section is the most compromised part of the unit, and even flagship receivers rarely approach the overall power handling capability of a comparable separate power amp. More power enables speakers to handle dynamics cleanly without clipping, which not only sounds better but helps protect the speakers. In general, a well designed separate power amp will have lower THD and noise specs, which helps improve overall sound quality. It should go without saying that increased loudness without increased harshness adds greatly to enjoyment of movie soundtracks. And, a well-designed and well-built power amp can last a long time (and add years to your speakers) while receivers usually either crap out after a few years or you need to upgrade them for the latest features. Lastly, owning a separate power amp with a long lifespan allows the owner the option of using a separate AVP or preamp and the chance to enjoy even higher levels of audio satisfaction that can come from better equipment beyond that of a typical receiver.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15407355


More power does not mean anything unless the speaker can use more power. As long as the THD of the amp is lower then that of the speaker it will not matter.

Click to expand...

The yamaha 663 has a THD of 0.06%. I doubt if human ears can

perceive a distortion that is 0.06%.


Now what does THD mean in the case of a speaker? I dont see THD

listed for my speakers (Klipsch RB81)


I guess it would make sense to use separate high quality amps if

the rest of the gear is also high quality in order to exploit the low

THD of a good amp. If I have $800 speakers $169 source (OPPO 980H)

I doubt they would benefit from a separate amp, especially if I only

play at 70db


I am going to buy the Emotiva UPA-2 2ch amp when they start selling it.

it is only $299. Emotiva also claims a lot about sound quality in their web site. if I dont see a difference it just goes back.