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Discussion Starter #1
i am on the verge of buying a sub after a lot of research and opinions. I have a more basic question because I have not really heard a real sub.


Is a sub required for music? Does it make much of a difference for music?


...and yes I do listen to music with bass, & I have the PSB Image T6
 

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I added my first cheap passive sub years ago and even it made a big difference for me. I have 8" 3 way speakers so maybe it would make a bigger one then someone who owns mains with bigger woofers in them.

It just added a nice bottom octave that was missing before, got even better when I scrounged up a amp to dedicate to driving it, and a bit better when I went to a powered sub recently with more adjustments and a proper sub out on my A/V system.

It's up to you and what you want/expect out of your system but I would recommend doing it. My music and my movies sound much nicer with one.

Even my Audiphile lil sisters hubby finally bought a sub to go with his new excellent all around Aeriel 7b speakers that already had excellent low end and he was impressed even more as well, and that's his dedicated 2 channel setup with a turntable as it's only source.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs
i am on the verge of buying a sub after a lot of research and opinions. I have a more basic question because I have not really heard a real sub.


Is a sub required for music? Does it make much of a difference for music?


...and yes I do listen to music with bass, & I have the PSB Image T6
Depends on the music you listen to and whether you feel bass is lacking.


The specs of your PSB's are impressive and similar to my towers that I have.(4-way Sony SS-TL5/6's, from when Sony made quality stuff) I use my towers for music only as they have plenty of bass for the music I listen too.


I found in party setting or really large rooms I benefited from pairing my towers with a subwoofer. For my personal listening I just would go with towers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 /forum/post/20966729


Depends on the music you listen to and whether you feel bass is lacking.


The specs of your PSB's are impressive.

I agree that it depends on musicpreferences - but your speakers are specified to being able to do +-3db at 32-23000hz - so if this is true most musicgenres should be covered (though not organ music and electronic)

- but beside of this it also depends on listening levels - if your speakers can do -3db at 32 hz the question would still be if they can perform this way without noticeable distortion at loud levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i do have below 60Hz bass issues even at moderate volumes. At certain speaker positions the bass sounds much better. It was moved recently and now I have to redo & set up audessey again. So bass is hurting a bit now.


I have experimented with crossover of the avr. I like the bass 120Hz & below, where it starts to give the thumping sounds. I feel the thumping sounds lie in the range of 80 - 120 Hz and this is my concern as subs I am after play upto 100. Not sure if I am right....but I do want more of it
.


Not sure if a sub will give what I am after as I have not really been happy with subs I have auditioned. They were of the likes of Polk/jamo...so you can say not really auditioned one of the likes of HSU or Rythmik. Currently I am exploring the option of FV12.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/0


i do have below 60Hz bass issues even at moderate volumes. At certain speaker positions the bass sounds much better. It was moved recently and now I have to redo & set up audessey again. So bass is hurting a bit now.


I have experimented with crossover of the avr. I like the bass 120Hz & below, where it starts to give the thumping sounds. I feel the thumping sounds lie in the range of 80 - 120 Hz and this is my concern as subs I am after play upto 100. Not sure if I am right....but I do want more of it
.


Not sure if a sub will give what I am after as I have not really been happy with subs I have auditioned. They were of the likes of Polk/jamo...so you can say not really auditioned one of the likes of HSU or Rythmik. Currently I am exploring the option of FV12.

For music systems people tend to recommend sealed subwoofer. Emotiva's get some recommendations for music. HSU's are popular.


The subwoofers do go above 100hz just not that strong.


And if mid-bass is your thing HSU has mid-bass module
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/20967009


At certain speaker positions the bass sounds much better.

And that's the reason subwoofers are useful for music: you can place them where bass sounds best in your room, and then you're free to place your speakers where they provide best soundstage and imaging (without worrying about ruining the bass).
 

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No, you do not need a subwoofer for music. As much as I love bass with movies and music, I have enjoyed and still do enjoy music without my subs being on.


Only reason I go back and forth with using my subs and not using them, I hate going into the setup of my AVR and changing the HZ on my left and right bookshelf speakers.


To give you an idea of how much I love bass, I have two SVS PB12 pluses with Monitor Audio RX2's for my left and right speakers.


My genre: Rap, house music, R&B, Smooth jazz and gospel
 

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Ultimately it's a question you can only answer yourself. My answer is Yes: I definitely "need" a sub for music listening, as much as I can "need" any first-world luxury item. I have tower mains that are rated to roll off around 33Hz, but even my entry-level STF-2 absolutely crushes them in terms of power and accuracy at the lower registers; so I cross them over way higher than their maximum theoretical low extension and let the dedicated, self-amplified low-freq driver do the heavy lifting.
 

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I've had subs for far longer than there has been home theater. I think it was '82 that I had a pair of subs made. I like to use monitor sized speakers (0.5cf) with subs for all content. I think that if one had main speakers that went down to 30Hz at realistic volumes and low distortion then subs wouldn't be needed for music. To meet these criteria the speakers would have to be quite large.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine /forum/post/20971232


...so I cross them over way higher than their maximum theoretical low extension and let the dedicated, self-amplified low-freq driver do the heavy lifting.

Do you mean the crossover is set way higher than 80Hz or you dont play bass off the mains?
 

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if you're not hearing all the music then yes you need one
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/20971352


Do you mean the crossover is set way higher than 80Hz or you dont play bass off the mains?

Cross the mains higher than their rated 33Hz from that example. Say, somewhere around 80Hz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/20971352


Do you mean the crossover is set way higher than 80Hz or you dont play bass off the mains?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Schempp /forum/post/20971393


Cross the mains higher than their rated 33Hz from that example. Say, somewhere around 80Hz.

What Schempp said
I was in denial for a long time (but but but 33Hz from my mains!) until I listened, experimented and listened some more. Then I combined my experiences listening with some raw facts: my amplifier (a middle of the road AVR) will never send more than about a hundred watts to any speaker, and my mains have 6" woofers. Regardless of whether the mains can make an accurate bass tone at 33Hz, it's going to be vastly less powerful than the same tone as sung by my sub, which has a 200W (RMS) amplifier and a 10" cone (not to mention its being a purpose-built bass device). Q.E.D.



That said, the bass that comes from my towers--which I cross over at 80Hz--is fuller and more present than the bass that comes from my bookshelf mains in the secondary bedroom system, even though both sets of mains are crossed over at the same point. I still hear their stronger bass response since a crossover is more like a hillside than a cliff. In other words, bass-capable mains aren't wasted in systems that also include subs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/20966552


i am on the verge of buying a sub after a lot of research and opinions. I have a more basic question because I have not really heard a real sub.


Is a sub required for music? Does it make much of a difference for music?


...and yes I do listen to music with bass, & I have the PSB Image T6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaQBlogs /forum/post/20970511


this is why forums tend to be confusing at times.


....I hear u need a sub and u dont need one

You don't need "a sub"...


You need multiple subs.



Seriously.


In a room, the room modes DOMINATE the sound you hear. With a single sub, depending on placement of the sub in relation to the listening position, you can have 25 or 30 dB swings in levels at different frequencies. The combination of peaks and nulls causes the bass to be boomy, or muddy, or thin or weak. This is actually very common with single subwoofers, and is probably the reason many people prefer the sound of the bass from their speakers over the bass from their subs.


One can correct this somewhat with placement of the subs and adjustment of the listening position, and with room correction EQ. However, the best way to correct this is to have multiple sources of bass. Multiple subs paced in different spots will have different room mode interaction and different peaks and nulls. With careful placement of multiple subs, one can even out the peaks and nulls and get rid of the muddy, boomy, thin or weak sound of a single sub. Once you do that, there is no question that having subs is highly beneficial, even in a music-only system.


Craig
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I now...have heard a real sub.



I had an audition of SVS SB 13 Plus. I had him pair this with bookshelves ( Usher S520 ) and the difference was Night & Day! I believe the crossover was at 80Hz. The volume was around -15dB (not sure what was set at the amp).
 

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My dad sat on my transducer equipped sofa and described the bass as 'boom-boom-boom'. Too loud he claimed. I made him stand up and walk away and the 'boom' vanished. The transducer tickles all your senses and tricks your mind into thinking its audible bass. Im not positive, but the effect seems to linger for a few seconds even after getting off the seat. Still experimenting. 240w amp gain on minimum and bass level on receiver at 3/4. The question might be 'do you want bass to impress the neighbours or just yourself.' I love my clark tst239 and its improved music, gaming and movies. My new favourite movie is now Master and Commander. I can hear and feel ship's crew on upper decks as though theyre walking/thumping around upstairs. Startling LFE. A full range transducer might be all u need?
 
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