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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't know how we can work out the logistics, but would anyone in my area be willing to do a crt v. dpl or lcd shootout. The set I have has not had an isf calibration but the user menu controls have been tweaked with Video Essentials and the convergence grids in the service menu for 1080i, 480i and 480p have recently been properly adjusted by a professional. I bought the tv in Nov. 2002 so it is kind of new. Because the dlp and lcds are lighter, someone can bring over their set to my house. We can watch a couple of movies that would allow for a good comparison and then post the results here. My set is a 47in so we would have to have a similar sized dlp or lcd.


Anyone willing to have one of these shootouts in with someone in your area? To make things fair the crt must have at least had the user menu controls corrected with Avia or DVE and convergence corrected in the service menu. If someone has an crt that has been calibrated by a isfer then a dlp or lcd that has been calibrated by an isfer would be a fair comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Anyone?
 

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Antonio:


Cool idea, but it's probably going to be fairly difficult to get people to dismantle their HT for something like this.


Shoot outs of audio systems is one thing but moving these big units around is another.


Good luck with this.
 

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If someone really wants to do a shoot-out the secret enforcers will stop them. It's easy to trash biased magazine shootouts--if AVS members had a shootout and reported the results we might actually have an idea of which was the best technology, that would costs someone in the industry money and might make alot of poster-supporters look silly--for all these reasons it will never be allowed to be posted--even if it secretly happened. It's like the X files. The secret enforcers are out there!
 

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If you compare CRT to DLP or LCD anyone can see the differences,and most agree. With DLP in a single chip RPTV there stillisn't a single model where I can't see the color wheel delay on every scene change and the Samsung is th worst of all, so I feel like a cat at a Tennis match, and that was that. LCD lacked serious black level like the DLP, but also lacked overall detail and focus when I bought mine, but then Sony's XBR was better and this year better again, so now the inherant black level issue is there, and it isn't quite as 3d , but it has gotten allot better, and they are cheaper for big units, and they do not require sitting as far away as CRT relative to size, so if you want huge ,and don't have real space for huge then LCD becomes more viable.


Plasma makes no sense at all unless you just want to pay huge for wall mounting, but for performance they aren't better then CRT, and suffer from horrible black levels with few exceptions, but even those are less then cRT. I would like to hang on wall, but inferior picture for double the price defies logic and so I can't participate without everytime I watch it thinking it doesn't look as good as a CRT and I got hosed on price for losing quality but it hangs on the wall. Lastly, most plasma's look bad in analog with the exception of the Hitachi and Fujitsu, so again huge price and another flaw.


Is there something other then that which you hear exists but disagree strongly with, so you want to prove it? Since I got mine 15 months ago, a CRT 57 inch Hitachi, the major upgrade has been in LCD, and unfortunately I guess the LCOS flopped, because when they came out in Houston and I reported on display and everyone thought I was lying because apparently it was the only one, it lasted only 3 weeks broke and the dealer never got them back, so I was thinking they would come back and price and reliability would be fixed, because while expensive that set had a very good picture.
 

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See the truth of CRT really being better is out there. Heck, I'll be glad when other display technoloies do surpass CRT in quality so we can finally get past alot of the nonsense that exists at the forum. I pray for the other technology supporters. Do they pray for me?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
See the truth of CRT really being better is out there. Heck, I'll be glad when other display technoloies do surpass CRT in quality so we can finally get past alot of the nonsense that exists at the forum. I pray for the other technology supporters. Do they pray for me?
No, because I don't treat LCD vs DLP vs CRT as some sort of religious battle. If CRT meets someone else's needs best, then good for them! Thankfully there is not a "one size fits all" or "one best technology" when it comes to televisions.


You can have all the shootouts, magazine reviews, etc you want - and it's all interesting information. However, no matter what your shootouts or reviews say, it doesn't change what's best for ME, or anyone else for that matter. CRT works best for some folks, DLP for others, and LCD for yet another group. Does that make their choice "wrong" because it doesn't match the magazine choice? Hell no.


That's why there's so many types of TVs - because one size DOESN'T fit all in this case...


Anyway, if you do a shootout I'd like to see the results - and I'm not going to be offended if you choose something other than what I have. After all, a shootout is simply the opinions of those who participated - and everyone's entitled to their own opinions.
 

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jfischer,


Excelent point! I agree that there is no one size fits all. However, my problem is, I can't decide which one fits me. I think that is a problem a lot of people have.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mnc
jfischer,


Excelent point! I agree that there is no one size fits all. However, my problem is, I can't decide which one fits me. I think that is a problem a lot of people have.
And the results of a shootout or magazine review may be helpful in pointing out what others like and dislike about each particular technology - and if those likes and dislikes apply to you.


In the end, it all comes down to what works for you. Shootouts and reviews can be very helpful in getting you to that point, but you can't let someone else decide for you what's best - after all it's your money :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jet,


I agree that there is alot of nonsense on this forum from some of the people who support the new technologies. Not all but some. The reason I asked for this challenge is to give those folks a chance to see what their set can do against a moderately to highly calibrated crt. The conversations and things some of these people say about crt in this forum would not even fly in the front projector forum. In the front projector forum the talk is more technical than it is here but it is still fun. I am not trying to bash the new techology because they are the future, but I am trying to inject some fun into this by having a shootout and then the posting pics and results. I'll sum up what a shootout for people with the new techologies would do for people by using a lyric from a Whitney Houston song.


"I believe the children (newer techologies) are our future"


"Teach them well and let them lead the way" CRT will teach the new technologies how to eventually lead


"Show them all the beauty and imperfections they possess inside" I added imperfections


"Give them a sense of pride to make it easier"


"Everybody searching for a hero" DLP, LCOS, LCD owners are all searching for that hero (hero being crt like performance)


"People need someone to look up to" They are looking up to crt to see how a their techology will one day perform


The only way to improve is to look at the leader and learn. A shootout will only help to further the truth and allow more people to openly discuss ways to fix flaws and improve the good parts.
 

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I will put my almost 1.5yr old calibrated Hitachi 57twx20b up against just about anything!

I have seen and love new tech but hey my set cost me $500 less than my Sony Kp53HS10 and it kicks its A**! Awesome bright sharp pic for $2100 with a no worry plan for 5 years.

My HD looks awesome.....DTV looks great.....no complaints....bring it on.

Hope your Super Bowl looks as good as mine!!!!!!!!:D

Kevo
 

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Quote:
You can have all the shootouts, magazine reviews, etc you want - and it's all interesting information. However, no matter what your shootouts or reviews say, it doesn't change what's best for ME, or anyone else for that matter. CRT works best for some folks, DLP for others, and LCD for yet another group. Does that make their choice "wrong" because it doesn't match the magazine choice? Hell no.
I completely agree, and contrary to popular belief, I got a lot of my objective information from this website. I just purchased the Sony KP57WS510 after a couple of weeks of dedicated research. I had originally been hoping to go with DLP or LCD, but I just couldn't reconcile the price difference for the picture quality on my budget. I had to re-think my priorities after originally wanting the "newest technology" available. After some hardcore thinking (and budget-setting by my wife), I just couldn't turn down the "bang for the buck" factor of the CRT RPTVs.


Just a newbie's thoughts...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by AFH
The only way to improve is to look at the leader and learn. A shootout will only help to further the truth and allow more people to openly discuss ways to fix flaws and improve the good parts.
The problem I have with this is that you've already decided for yourself that CRT is the "best" technology and everything else is inferior - and that you need to convert everyone else to your way of thinking.


However, what makes CRT best for you may not make it best for everyone. CRT is certainly not without its problems as well. Am I knocking CRT? Of course not. CRT still has many benefits (cost, black level, etc) but again it's not the best or only solution for everyone.


There's nothing wrong with being fanatical about something, as long as you understand that those who disagree with you aren't wrong, just different.


The evangelism here amongs CRT vs DLP vs LCD users is a lot like OS wars. There are those who are convinced that Linux (substitute CRT, LCD, or DLP) is the only true way, and that everyone else is a moron for using anything else.


Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jfish,


I have not decided anything. Ask any isfer worth his or her salt how a moderately to well calibrated crt will perform against an lcd or dlp set.


As a matter of fact you can go to cnet.com and look at what they have about crt v. dlp or lcd. They do not bash either techology and they tell you the flaws of each, but they use their imperical testing data to come to the conclusion that most people who are truthful with themselves will come to.


I know that everyone has different needs and that is okay. I did not say that crt doesn't have problems. You did not see that in any of my posts. I am not being fanatical. I just asked if anyone would like to put their dlp or lcd up against a moderately to well calibrated crt. That is the question. I did not and will not bash lcd or dlp. Those technology serve their purpose and they are wonderful in their own right. Some folks may not have the space for an crt and may not want to put up with calibrating it. That is okay. Ying and yang. But when I ask for a shootout to allow people to see the differences in technology I am not bashing dlp or lcd. I am asking for a fair comparison. I have never and will not call someone a moron because of a television choice. You did not see me call anyone names. I guess the question is would any dlp or lcd owner feel confident enough to do a side by side comparison with a moderately to well calibrated crt using hd sources, dvd and sd. Seems to me by some of the reactions the answer would be no.


Not trying to bash. I do not hate lcd or dlp. I love the size and the beautiful pictures those sets can display. Just don't say that I think that those sets are inferior and that I don't see any redeeming quality about them because I ask for a side by side comparison. Let the results speak for themselves. I won't try to convert you because I am not here to do that. Just let the opinions of professionals who tune these sets to be your guide (i.e. cnet or any of the isfer who frequent this forum). I am not saying that the choice you make is wrong because it is about what works best for your situation. I am just trying to set free the minds of those who say that people who believe in crt are fanatics and that they will try to convert any lcd or dlp owner because that technology is inferior. To the contrary my friend. Enjoy which ever technology you may have because that is what it is all about.
 

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How about some custom paint jobs and chrome knobs then maybe a national shootout contest. Add a few case mods and it should be a hoot.
 

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It never ceases to amaze me how scientifically anything else in the universe can be compared to a standard, but Picture Quality can't. Either a display meets a certain standard or it doesn't--maybe it meets it 85.6% instead of 94.2%. Just because it is hard to QUANTIFY how much a display meets a standard and also hard to agree on a standard does not mean that OBJECTIVELY a standard couldn't exist. It's not a religious war with me. If three successive technologies on three successive days produced a better picture I could live with and glory in that truth. I was being sarcastic--no I don't pray for them and doubt if any pray for me, but I certainly need their prayers. I think the REAL reason people get angry and say that different displays cannot be compared isn't because they love their display or philosophically or religiously believe in absolute truth or relative truth. I believe that tolerance is always considered right and is easier for people to deal with and get along with people. The MAIN reason people at the forum DON'T want to compare different technologies is because it will cost someone in the Video Industry money and a sizable number of people who post at the forum support that industry. Even CHILDREN with their limited intelligence can compare an apple to an orange--why can't very intelligent people at the AV SCIENCE forum be willing to compare different technologies? I wouldn't being causing such anger in some people if there wasn't an element of truth in what I'm saying!
 

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A couple of points from above:


I believe that we who frequent these forums are already aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the various technologies. This exercise might just confirm them, but what is 'best' will still be completely the subjective opinion of the purchaser/owner. It would be interesting tho.


Whitney Houston ?????


I would be happy to volunteer my tweaked GWII, but 3000 miles is a long way to drag it.


It doesn't matter what the results of any shoot out are, people will still buy what they consider to be the best PQ to their eyes and, more often than not, the best deal.


If there wasn't a profitable Video Industry working tirelessly to bring us all of these cool gadgets, we wouldn't have the great home entertainment systems that we enjoy now and we'd have nothing to argue about.
 

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Why this shootout would be so easy because your CRT is half way dead.

My Sammy 567 Would blow the doors off your CRT.

Skip all the small talk, your on your way out and half dead in the water:eek:

Jim
 

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Before this yet again gets into the issues it already is getting into (people bashing people over what they own or like) I will now close this thread. Come on now, if you like one, great. If you like the other great.
 
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