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Discussion Starter #21

Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 /forum/post/20625916


are you planning to use the foam to tame wave/modal issues, or specular issues?

Very good question. I really don't have a good answer. I guess I am using it as my own experiment to see how effective they are. My plan is to swap them with my existing panels and see how they perform. Depending on the results, I will put them in my kid's play room, as this is in need of help.

I don't have any wave issues at hand, but what I will look at in the near future is diffusion.
 

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How about some basics?

Where are the speakers placed in the room? Where do you sit? Do you have one seating location or several? Windows? Open to other rooms? Hallways? More to the point, what problem are you trying to solve?


Fiberglass, foam, magic purple silk rags, blue smoke ... all are solutions looking for a problem. Let's define the problem then find a solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine /forum/post/20626791


How about some basics?

Where are the speakers placed in the room? Where do you sit? Do you have one seating location or several? Windows? Open to other rooms? Hallways? More to the point, what problem are you trying to solve?


Fiberglass, foam, magic purple silk rags, blue smoke ... all are solutions looking for a problem. Let's define the problem then find a solution.

Speakers are located in a windowless room, there is one seat, the room is enclosed. I am not trying to solve any problems, I wanted to know the opinion of others who have tried the product. I believe that my room sounds quite good. But, as in any hobby, you want to experiment with other equipment, to see if you can improve what you have.

Case in point, I auditioned some Kimber Kables interconnect (IC) and compared then to my Better Cables Silver Serpent Anniversary Edition IC, The Better Cables is 1/5 the price of the Kimber, but to me they sound better, now if the Kimber had the sound I liked then I would have changed my IC. I know better is relative, but it is all subjective to the individual.

In short I am always looking to improve on what I have.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20626835


Speakers are located in a windowless room, there is one seat, the room is enclosed. I am not trying to solve any problems, I wanted to know the opinion of others who have tried the product. I believe that my room sounds quite good. But, as in any hobby, you want to experiment with other equipment, to see if you can improve what you have.

Case in point, I auditioned some Kimber Kables interconnect (IC) and compared then to my Better Cables Silver Serpent Anniversary Edition IC, The Better Cables is 1/5 the price of the Kimber, but to me they sound better, now if the Kimber had the sound I liked then I would have changed my IC. I know better is relative, but it is all subjective to the individual.

In short I am always looking to improve on what I have.

If I were you I'd consider staying away from changes to room acoustics.


Changes to room acoustics can have a very profound effect on how things sound, compared to things like cables.


If you were to get involved with room acoustics, I'd recommend buying relatively expensive and ineffective products. That way you won't blow your mind with changes that are profound and unmistakable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/20626869


If I were you I'd consider staying away from changes to room acoustics.


Changes to room acoustics can have a very profound effect on how things sound, compared to things like cables.


If you were to get involved with room acoustics, I'd recommend buying relatively expensive and ineffective products. That way you won't blow your mind with changes that are profound and unmistakable.

Yes, and never ever consider learning to use any measurement tools which will only provide massive conflicts with your perceptions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/20626929


Yes, and never ever consider learning to use any measurement tools which will only provide massive conflicts with your perceptions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20626835


Case in point, I auditioned some Kimber Kables interconnect (IC) and compared then to my Better Cables Silver Serpent Anniversary Edition IC, The Better Cables is 1/5 the price of the Kimber, but to me they sound better, now if the Kimber had the sound I liked then I would have changed my IC. I know better is relative, but it is all subjective to the individual.

An audiophile I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20626835


Speakers are located in a windowless room, there is one seat, the room is enclosed.

Exactly as I would have pictured it.

In this case, I highly recommend padding all cell walls, starting with that Auralex business.

Good luck.


cheers,


AJ
 

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That reminds me of the room they put Percy Wetmore in.
 

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Discussion Starter #29

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA /forum/post/20626994


An audiophile I see.



Exactly as I would have pictured it.

In this case, I highly recommend padding all cell walls, starting with that Auralex business.

Good luck.


cheers,


AJ

Thanks, now I know that I need more than luck with the Auralex business. My cell is already padded, and with the "meds" I take, man I see and hear rainbows daly.

Seriously, what is your definition of an audiophile?

If someone wants to experiment, is it wrong? How would you or anyone know about a particular products if someone did not try it.

Manufacturers makes ludicrous claim every time they releases a product, even when someone reviews a product, how do you know that they are not biased towards it?

When your read an articular from the New York Times, do you know which way they lean? Or when you watch Fox News... oops my bad, that is too obvious. My point is that you have to read with an open mind and not take things for gospel just because it is written by an expert.

Take Kal Rubinson's articular on the Integra 80.2 in the latest edition of Stereophile magazine, do I agree with everything that was written, no, especially when using Audyssey Pro. From my experience, Integra/Onkyo implementation has been flawed when compared to Denon or Marantz. Again this is my opinion.

My personal belief is that audio is relative to your own listening likes or pleasure. Some likes the sound of a horn tweeter, while other not. Some like Paradigm, Wilson Audio, Polks etc, but others may think not. It all boils down to personal taste.
 

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Quote:
Case in point, I auditioned some Kimber Kables interconnect (IC) and compared then to my Better Cables Silver Serpent Anniversary Edition IC, The Better Cables is 1/5 the price of the Kimber, but to me they sound better, now if the Kimber had the sound I liked then I would have changed my IC

Really!? Did you determine if one, or both, of the cables were tone controls? I'd suggest there are items better suited to use as a tone control.


I really, really like that placebo effect. Solves more acoustic issues then you can possibly imagine.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


Seriously, what is your definition of an audiophile?

Wire hearing padded cell types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


If someone wants to experiment, is it wrong?

Not at all. People spent centuries trying to make gold out of lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


How would you or anyone know about a particular products if someone did not try it.

The same way I know about not trying a spoonful of manure to know it tastes like isht. A combination of accumulated knowledge and common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


My personal belief is that audio is relative to your own listening likes or pleasure.

Somewhat true, though Harman style controlled testing revealed remarkable consistency with varied groups....but there are always outliers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


It all boils down to personal taste.

Sure. And if you feel that a lifetime of random trial and error is the most efficient road to achieving audio nirvana...have at it. Once again, sincerely, best of luck.


cheers,


AJ
 

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Discussion Starter #32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine /forum/post/20628402


Really!? Did you determine if one, or both, of the cables were tone controls? I'd suggest there are items better suited to use as a tone control.


I really, really like that placebo effect. Solves more acoustic issues then you can possibly imagine.

Ugh? Tonal control? If my Better cables are $ 65.00 a pair compare to five times that amount for another brand that is the rave for many, whatever placebo effect you speak of is relative. It depends on you. If the cables cost $500.00 would I buy them, no! The cost is relative to what you can afford. Would I buy a set of speaker wires because some reviewer said that it was warm and open...it depends on the cost, if the cost is relative to what you budget then have a listen to see if it sound the same to you, if it don't then take it back.

As a CFI, do you tell your student that if they are on a short final with a tight turn to use speed, or do you just sit back and say nothing and let then figure it out for themselves?

As this is my hobby, everything I do must fall within my budget, if not then tough luck. If an expert is to write that a Cessna 182 can do a double barrel roll better than an Extra 300 would you believe?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA
Wire hearing padded cell types.



Not at all. People spent centuries trying to make gold out of lead.



The same way I know about not trying a spoonful of manure to know it tastes like isht. A combination of accumulated knowledge and common sense.



Somewhat true, though Harman style controlled testing revealed remarkable consistency with varied groups....but there are always outliers.



Sure. And if you feel that a lifetime of random trial and error is the most efficient road to achieving audio nirvana...have at it. Once again, sincerely, best of luck.


cheers,


AJ
You are funny, you sound like a politician. Are you part of the Lib. Dem. party? You sound like you have turn ****e into a kidney pie.

Good for you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


Take Kal Rubinson's articular on the Integra 80.2 in the latest edition of Stereophile magazine, do I agree with everything that was written, no, especially when using Audyssey Pro. From my experience, Integra/Onkyo implementation has been flawed when compared to Denon or Marantz. Again this is my opinion.

Funny. The major thing that I criticized about it was the AudysseyPro implementation.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628554


Ugh? Tonal control? If my Better cables are $ 65.00 a pair compare to five times that amount for another brand that is the rave for many, whatever placebo effect you speak of is relative.

Say what you will, spending $65 or even 5 times that for cables of a kind that is completely and totally ideally functional at or below the $10 price point is simply a waste of time and money.


You seem to be unaware of the kind of a joke that $65 cables represent.


I think there is still hope that you do get the concept of the futlity of "throwing good money after bad".


Here's the big idea that many of us have tried to share with you:


Room acoustics can make big changes and even improvements in system sound quality.


$65 cables can't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628285


If someone wants to experiment, is it wrong?

No.


If you are interested in finding out for yourself, then do so. (for sure, do some research beforehand).


TBH I did not click on your link. "foam" was enough for me.


You are talking about being willing to blow a few bucks on an experiment. You have (I think, without reading the thread again) been advised that foam might not be the ticket.


If you are willing to experiment, go to your hardware store and buy a bag of fibreglass. $50 over there? (at the most)


Ok, place them in the 'usual suspect' positions, and find out for yourself.


Like the result? Ok then, make or buy some permanent ones. Throw these way, throw them in the ceiling for extra insulation, or consult a diy how to make them look nice.


Don't like the result? As I said, put them in the ceiling.

Find out for yourself (I don't want to jump on you so to speak for asking, research is fine) but at the end of the day it is YOUR ears, and YOUR taste.


Who gives a flying stuff what some loudmouthed bigot with a full bookmarks folder tells you? (we all know who is being referred to here, if not go back and simply find the obnoxious, unhelpful, oh so righteous posts and you will know who I mean).


At the end of the day, YOU need to know.


This is an easy, cheap and simple way for YOU to find out.


(oh yeah, save your money on cabling ok? use it for things that DO make a difference. Better or worse is for you to decide, but a difference definitely)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine /forum/post/20628402


I really, really like that placebo effect. Solves more acoustic issues then you can possibly imagine.

And it's worth noting that it can happen even with the "best," in their area of expertise, too.


The best placebo effect story I've read was about two-time Formula-1 World Champion Graham Hill. At one course, he was complaining that the shocks on his Lotus weren't firm enough. They swapped in a few, but he still said they weren't firm enough. Then they took a red pair that he had already rejected, painted them blue (or perhaps I have the colors swapped), and told him that they were a brand new design that was the stiffest out there. He took a lap and said they were perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richandy /forum/post/20628554


Ugh? Tonal control? If my Better cables are $ 65.00 a pair compare to five times that amount for another brand that is the rave for many,

And compare to one fifth that amount that do the exact same thing.



Pay what you want for cables. But buy them on what actually differs between them. That is mostly just looks. With a very few exceptions (and most of those have blisters on the barrel with resistors embedded in them to act as, yes, fixed tone controls) wires are just wires.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry j /forum/post/20631404


No.


If you are interested in finding out for yourself, then do so. (for sure, do some research beforehand).


TBH I did not click on your link. "foam" was enough for me.


You are talking about being willing to blow a few bucks on an experiment. You have (I think, without reading the thread again) been advised that foam might not be the ticket.


If you are willing to experiment, go to your hardware store and buy a bag of fibreglass. $50 over there? (at the most)

buy the bales of r13 pink insulation (keep them wrapped) and stack them in the corners floor to ceiling (and floor/wall corners as well). they wont perform quite as good being compressed, but you can test and then return them as long as you keep them wrapped.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 /forum/post/20631562


buy the bales of r13 pink insulation (keep them wrapped) and stack them in the corners floor to ceiling (and floor/wall corners as well). they wont perform quite as good being compressed, but you can test and then return them as long as you keep them wrapped.

for sure, that is more in the area of bass trapping...as he mentioned 'foam panels' I took it to mean first reflections points etc etc.


But yeah! Buy four or five and only open one (for first reflection points or whatever is being investigated) and throw the rest in the corners.


Remember tho the first rule of experimenting...ONLY change one thing at a time.


Other than that, go wild. And know for oneself.
 

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Discussion Starter #40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/20629692


Funny. The major thing that I criticized about it was the AudysseyPro implementation.

I stand corrected as you did find much frustration with AUD PRO. My point is Integra/Onkyo implementation of AUD and AUD PRO is not as good compare to Denon or Marantz.


I however found your review of the Sony quite informative. My question is how many people will be convinced that spending $27,000.00 on a pair of Sony speakers will be worth it?
 
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