[Darth Indy]

Just wondering as all I have now is the ONKYO sub that came with my HTIB setup. I got to check out a DEF TECH SUPERCUBE I in my room and was blown away. I wonder though if it is overpriced and if there is much better for alot less money?

 

[mojomike]

In a sense, almost all subs that are small and good are overpriced because you can always find a larger, cheaper sub that will outperform them. With subs, good and small = expensive.

 

[Wafflebird]

The Supercube 1 has a lot of power and can play rather loud for it's size without question. However the specs that Def-Tech lists for their subs (I own the Super-Cube Reference) are not the industry standard +/- 3 db. The Super-cube 1 falls off in output sharply below 28 Hz from what my memory tells me. Which is not bad for it's size. Of course you can get a lot of room gain dependent on room size and sub location.


The long story short is that as good as the SC1 may sound there will be certain parts in movies that it simply will not play because it will not output anything in and around the 15 - 20 Hz range that most all of the similarly priced ID brands will. Again this is not saying it is a bad subwoofer, as there are a ton of subs out there, big or small that do not have the ability to play the super-low stuff. You can however get a much better performing subwoofer for the same, or even less, money from SVS, HSU, ED, or Epik just to name a few. The main thing the SC1 has going for it is it's small size, just like Mojomike said. If you have room for one of the larger ID brands and you want the most performance you can get for your money my recommendation is to go ID.


Good luck and enjoy whatever you get.

 

[mbroder]

I LOVE my supercube 1, and for my room (19'x14') it works great. Very tight bass and not boomy at all. I got the deal of the century on mine (traded some labor for it), so I'm not sure how it stacks up value-wise with other subs.


Without the ability to measure... I will say this as far as bass extension goes. In real world environments, this sub is visceral! I watched Live Free Die Hard the other night in DTS master audio and was blown away at the gunfire and explosions. You literally felt every shot go through you!!

 

[jhan1000]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy /forum/post/14257644


Just wondering as all I have now is the ONKYO sub that came with my HTIB setup. I got to check out a DEF TECH SUPERCUBE I in my room and was blown away. I wonder though if it is overpriced and if there is much better for alot less money?

Granted, there is more to life than objective measurements, but this website is a good resource....

http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm


Long story short, the Supercube has an average SPL between 25 - 62Hz of 103db.


The Outlaw LFM-1 which is a little cheaper has an average SPL between 25 - 62Hz of 108db...


So yes, you can get more SPL's for less money, but you will sacrifice size.

 

[thehun]

According to the link above, Supercube1 don't have any useful output below 25hz, and even at that FR it's only 75db. A whimp!

 

[otk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun /forum/post/14265732


According to the link above, Supercube1 don't have any useful output below 25hz, and even at that FR it's only 75db. A whimp!

depends on if that was measured at the active driver or one of the side firing passive radiators. i don't know how you could accurately measure a sub with that design


i've heard the little supercubes "in room" and they are no whimps in my opinion


to the OP, you heard the sub for yourself in your own room, it's really up to you if it's worth it or not but you should be able to find def tech at about 25% off of retail. if not, find another dealer


also, watch for clearance deals and ebay for really good deals

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan1000 /forum/post/14263978


Granted, there is more to life than objective measurements, but this website is a good resource....

http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm


Long story short, the Supercube has an average SPL between 25 - 62Hz of 103db.


The Outlaw LFM-1 which is a little cheaper has an average SPL between 25 - 62Hz of 108db...


So yes, you can get more SPL's for less money, but you will sacrifice size.

It's not only that the Supercube I averaged only 103 db between 25-62 Hz, but that maximum response was achieved only between 50-62 Hz. Below 50Hz, response fell off at 18 db per octave. Also, at 40 Hz, output was limited to 100db by distortion.


The fact that the OP liked the Supercube Reference I AS COMPARED TO HIS ONKYO HTIB SUB should come as no surprise.


As far as how Tom Nousaine tests subwoofers, including those with passive radiators, we can start with the fact that Tom has been testing subs (for Sound & Vision magazine and other publications), with passive radiators for a minimum of 13 years.


More importantly, his tests are conducted uniformly which gives no advantage to any particular design.


Finally, OTK might want to state that he owns 6 Def Tech subs (and therefore may not be unbiased).

 

[lefthandluke]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/14267253


It's not only that the Supercube I averaged only 103 db between 25-62 Hz, but that maximum response was achieved only between 50-62 Hz. Below 50Hz, response fell off at 18 db per octave. Also, at 40 Hz, output was limited to 100db by distortion.


The fact that the OP liked the Supercube Reference I AS COMPARED TO HIS ONKYO HTIB SUB should come as no surprise.


As far as how Tom Nousaine tests subwoofers, including those with passive radiators, we can start with the fact that Tom has been testing subs (for Sound & Vision magazine and other publications), with passive radiators for a minimum of 13 years.


More importantly, his tests are conducted uniformly which gives no advantage to any particular design.


Finally, OTK might want to state that he owns 6 Def Tech subs (and therefore may not be unbiased).

all true...but wouldn't you agree that certain designs may benefit from that testing more than others?

ie...front firing ports as opposed to rear ports, or for that matter, side mounted PR's...when actually room gain may affect all differently?

 

[otk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/14267253


It's not only that the Supercube I averaged only 103 db between 25-62 Hz, but that maximum response was achieved only between 50-62 Hz. Below 50Hz, response fell off at 18 db per octave. Also, at 40 Hz, output was limited to 100db by distortion.


The fact that the OP liked the Supercube Reference I AS COMPARED TO HIS ONKYO HTIB SUB should come as no surprise.


As far as how Tom Nousaine tests subwoofers, including those with passive radiators, we can start with the fact that Tom has been testing subs (for Sound & Vision magazine and other publications), with passive radiators for a minimum of 13 years.


More importantly, his tests are conducted uniformly which gives no advantage to any particular design.


Finally, OTK might want to state that he owns 6 Def Tech subs (and therefore may not be unbiased).

no bias here, my next subs will most likely be the JL f212's


just stating my opinion and asking questions


how does one accurately measure a subwoofer in an anechoic condition when energy is emitting from 3 sides of the cube? not only that but different frequencies from different 2 different sides ?


if you have the answers to these questions, please let me know because i like learning all i can about this stuff


if you do not have the answers, kindly shut your pie hole

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by otk /forum/post/14268778


no bias here, my next subs will most likely be the JL f212's


just stating my opinion and asking questions


how does one accurately measure a subwoofer in an anechoic condition when energy is emitting from 3 sides of the cube? not only that but different frequencies from different 2 different sides ?


if you have the answers to these questions, please let me know because i like learning all i can about this stuff


if you do not have the answers, kindly shut your pie hole

I don't speak for Tom Nousaine. He has tested over 250 subwoofers.


Quoting from the owners of Epik subwoofers, "He has been reviewing subwoofers for many years and has earned a reputation as an incredibly knowledgeable reviewer."


Epik chose Tom Nousaine to test their flagship, the Conquest. This choice was made partly because Tom had previously tested the $15,000 Velodyne DD-1812 and the ~$10,000 Genelec HTS6.


If you have questions about his testing methods, you need to direct those questions to Tom Nousaine, not me.


I hope that you contacted Definitive Technology to find out the best stacking pattern for your 6 Definitive Technology subwoofers, as they should be in the best position to answer that question.

 

[otk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/14274030


I don't speak for Tom Nousaine.

you do speak for him if you're posting his numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/14274030


If you have questions about his testing methods, you need to direct those questions to Tom Nousaine, not me.

you are the one posting his numbers, you should explain what they mean. if you have no understanding of how he tests a cube with an active driver on the front and a passive radiator on both sides then you should not run around posting his numbers unless you can fully explain them

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/14274030


I hope that you contacted Definitive Technology to find out the best stacking pattern for your 6 Definitive Technology subwoofers, as they should be in the best position to answer that question.

this has nothing to do with the thread or the topic. it's just another one of your pop shots at me personally because you seem to have some type of Jihad agenda against def tech and store bought subs in general. it's also no secret that you're a staunch ID fanboy so who has the bias here ?

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by otk /forum/post/14276313


you do speak for him if you're posting his numbers




you are the one posting his numbers, you should explain what they mean. if you have no understanding of how he tests a cube with an active driver on the front and a passive radiator on both sides then you should not run around posting his numbers unless you can fully explain them




this has nothing to do with the thread or the topic. it's just another one of your pop shots at me personally because you seem to have some type of Jihad agenda against def tech and store bought subs in general. it's also no secret that you're a staunch ID fanboy so who has the bias here ?

I will continue to post the link to the list of more than 250 subwoofers tested by Tom Nousaine. I get requests for the link to Tom Nousaine's tests of more than 250 subwoofers.


As Jhan notes the list is a good resource.

http://www.home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm


You are probably not aware that Tom Vodhanel, co-owner of SVS participated in bringing the list together.


From time to time I also refer to tests done by Ilkka. I don't speak for Ilkka any more than I speak for Tom Nousaine.


From time to time I refer to tests done by my friend Craig Chase. I don't speak for Craig Chase any more than I speak for Tom Nousaine.


There is a very good reason Epik chose Tom Nousaine to test their flagship Conquest. "He has been reviewing subwoofers for many years and has earned a reputation as an incredibly knowledgeable reviewer".


I will continue to advise you to direct any and all questions about the methods used by Tom Nousaine to him.

 

[Kinnithy]

do you realize that on the graph that the supercube II and III has a higher SPL then the SuperCube I?


I = 10"

II = 8"

III = 7"


that is weird...

 

[Rowyco]

The numbers on that chart don't seem very reliable from my experience.

Also, it's no small wonder that the manufacturers with whom the list editor is associated have highly rated products (at least as far as his test specifications).


As far as DefTechs small cube subs go.... I would rate em' with Sunfire subs, which regardless of anyones test numbers, sound quite awesome with a proper setup. Excellent performers at the size and price point, that will satisfy 99.99% of the users.

I think it's funny how the small box subs get compared to big box subs. It's like comparing a tricked out supercharged rice grinder with a H.O. big block V8 - Both are fast, and both will get you there if they're built properly.

 

[Patdeisa]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy /forum/post/14257644


Just wondering as all I have now is the ONKYO sub that came with my HTIB setup. I got to check out a DEF TECH SUPERCUBE I in my room and was blown away. I wonder though if it is overpriced and if there is much better for alot less money?

Based off of the link to the subwoofer tests, the SVS SB12+ has similar averaged output. I had tested a SCIII versus the SB12+, and found the SVS dug deeper and cleaner (granted, a 7" driver vs a 12" driver is pretty unfair). If you haven't looked at one, I'd suggest at least a glance.

 

[ddrheretic]

Yes and no.. It all depends on your situation. If you can fit a bigger sub in your room then yes.. If you can't then no.

 

[Ironmike86]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyco /forum/post/15000923


The numbers on that chart don't seem very reliable from my experience.

Also, it's no small wonder that the manufacturers with whom the list editor is associated have highly rated products (at least as far as his test specifications).


As far as DefTechs small cube subs go.... I would rate em' with Sunfire subs, which regardless of anyones test numbers, sound quite awesome with a proper setup. Excellent performers at the size and price point, that will satisfy 99.99% of the users.

I think it's funny how the small box subs get compared to big box subs. It's like comparing a tricked out supercharged rice grinder with a H.O. big block V8 - Both are fast, and both will get you there if they're built properly.

Only the rice burner co$t twice as much with less performance. Subs aren't the same as cars. Op asked if he can get the much better for less money. Yes he can alot less. The op didn't say anything about size being an issue. I wouldn't even look at the supercube if size wasn't an issue.

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyco /forum/post/15000923


The numbers on that chart don't seem very reliable from my experience.

Also, it's no small wonder that the manufacturers with whom the list editor is associated have highly rated products (at least as far as his test specifications).


As far as DefTechs small cube subs go.... I would rate em' with Sunfire subs, which regardless of anyones test numbers, sound quite awesome with a proper setup. Excellent performers at the size and price point, that will satisfy 99.99% of the users.

I think it's funny how the small box subs get compared to big box subs. It's like comparing a tricked out supercharged rice grinder with a H.O. big block V8 - Both are fast, and both will get you there if they're built properly.

The fact that Tom Nousaine tests most of the subs for Sound & Vision magazine speaks volumes about the reliability of the tests Tom has conducted.


That is not to say that the list is perfect. Still, nothing else even remotely like it exists, and IMHO, the confidence level of the list is >90%, probably closer to 95%.


A lot of people STILL don't understand that there can be findings that are counter-intuitive because so many subs have their maximum output between 50-62 Hz. Such a sub could have a considerable amount of average output but be down by more than 20 db at 30 Hz, (compared to output at 62 hz).


The list is maintained by one enthusiast, not by Tom Nousaine. The list was originally started by Tom Vodhandel, the "V" in SVS.


The list is simply a ranking by output from 25Hz-62Hz. This lets you see how a given subs compares to all the others, without regards to design considerations including size, price, etc.


No one else has a list that is remotely as comprehensive as this one.


You seem to be suggesting that the list is biased in some way. It's not clear if you think Tom Nousaine is skewing the results for commercial reasons.


If you think that the list is skewed, please provide a link to the test results that would provide even one shred of evidence to support your assertion.

 

[deejmic]

bump