[Nels]

My story goes like this:


I bought a TXM3097WHF last year, almost 11 months ago in fact, and I just plugged in my brand new SIR-T351 Digital Set Top Box yesterday......and nothing! I had been watching the Samsung TXM3097WHF with just regular cable, in wide screen of course, for almost a year, before I finally got the digital receiver. Anyway, I first connected the component video cables to both units and the signal wasn't reaching the TV, so I tried the composite video cable and it worked. But composite cables don't give you an HD quality picture. BIG PROBLEM! I first thought the problem was with the new digital set top box, but after connecting it to a HDTV monitor at the store, that was ruled out and my focus became the TV. I had tried new component cables before I took the box back to the store for testing, and that wasn't it.


So now I have a new digital receiver with no way to use it to it's full advantage. I called SEARS, where I purchased the TV, and they said to bring it in and they would give me a new one. I was amazed. They no longer had the old TXM3097WHF so they gave me a brand new TXN3071WHF instead. Pretty cool right? Well I did some quick research and discovered that the TXN3071WHF doesn't have a DVI jack, which my new SIR-T351 does. So, I thought maybe I should try to trade my new unopened TXN3071WHF in for a newer model with DVI. I am currently looking at the TXN3098WHF (which SEARS dosen't carry), since it is the only 30" Samsung available with DVI. But I also learned that there is a new 30" Samsung coming out called the TXN3084WHD, which I know nothing about and can't find any information about anywhere on the web.


My questions are these:


1. Should I stand pat with the TXN3071WHF and forget about the DVI jack?

This will cost me $0 and maybe DVI isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. I don't know, but I've heard some great comments about DVI, and since the industry is moving toward that technology, maybe I should try and aquire it and not settle?


2. If DVI is really that noticeable or important, than maybe I should try and upgrade to the TXN3098WHF, since that unit does have the DVI jack? I like the look of the unit and I think it has better audio than the one I'm currently holding. I've read mixed reviews about that unit here on AVS forums, so I don't know?


3. Option three would be to wait for the new 30" Samsung called the TXN3084WHD. I'm sure it will have a DVI jack since it is the newest model, but what does it look like? Does anyone know whether it is worth waiting for or when it will be available? I don't want to wait too much longer as I've already waited 11 months to enjoy HDTV already.


Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

 

[McNasty]

Why don't you hook it up through component? The fact that it isn't working through component isn't a reason not to hook it up. It means there is a problem with either your box or the TV. As far as DVI goes, it does have a great picture, but if your HD Cable box is a Motorola, then the DVI output on it isn't activated. For some reason that box isn't set up to use the DVI out yet.

 

[Nels]

The reason I couldn't hook it up with component cables is the component jacks on the back of the old TV (TXM3097WHF) weren't working. That's why I brought it back to SEARS and got a replacement. I now have a brand new TXN3071WHF and I'm trying to figure out whether or not to keep it or try to exchange it for a TXN3098WHF, which HAS the DVI jack on the rear panel. I don't have any cable boxes, as my regular cable goes directly into the TV. I do, however, have a digital receiver with the DVI jack called the Samsung SIR-T351. I could hook up the new TV with component cables and forget about the DVI jack on the receiver, but I'm not sure I should do that. That's why I'm asking you guys your advice.


My questions are:


1. Should I keep the Samsung TXN3071WHF TV and just use the component cables to hook it up to the HDTV receiver and forget about the DVI jack on the back of the HDTV receiver?


or


2. Should I try to upgrade the replacement TV I received from SEARS to a Samsung TXN3098WHF (which has a DVI jack) or other 30" widescreen brand, like SONY that has a DVI jack to get the most out of my new Samsung SIR-T351?


Basically, what I am asking is, is the DVI connection amazing enough to go to all that trouble and expense to trade up to a TV with DVI or do you guys think that the component connection will be good enough, if not great?

 

[Oliver Deplace]

If you can, swap the non-DVI equipped for a DVI equipped. This is assuming there will be no exorbitant increase in cost to do so.

DVI, in addition to providing another input, will allow protected HD content to be viewed at full resolution, whenever they get that ball rolling.

Your STB is OTA only IIRC and has no issues with protected content.

Having the option of adding a cable/sat HD box, which will downrez protected content (480p when hooked up through component) without a DVI-HDTV connection, could come in handy.

This and not the PQ improvement, would be my motivation.


Again, if it's painless to get the DVI port, it's better to have it than not.

 

[Nels]

Thanks for the input! I agree it would be nice to have DVI, but does it look so much better than component that it is a necessity to have it? I don't think I'll be getting a dish soon and will probably just watch TV broadcasts with this TV. I just don't want to get something that is clearly (and noticeably) inferior to DVI (if it really is, since I never seen DVI in action). So if DVI is 5% better than component, then I don't think it would be worth my time and effort and $200. If it is 20% to 50% better, then it is worth it and I'll get it. Thanks for your help.

 

[Oliver Deplace]

IMO the PQ improvement is not worth a $200 (20%?) increase in cost.

The CRTs, that I have seen, displaying through DVI and A/B'd with component, had subtle differences. Nothing huge. The differences would be imperceptable from longer viewing distances (>5').

Plasmas, however, were a different story.

If you're going to watch OTA and DVD (and connectivity isn't an issue), then save your cash and enjoy your TV.

 

[Nels]

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Any other opinions out there?

 

[schweizer]

I'm not so sure about TV's but when I first read about DVI I went out and purchased a new vid card with DVI, then a new LCD monitor with DVI, and now here I sit typing, looking at my new screen and wondering the same thing. To my eye I don't see much of a difference, that's why I too am concerned whether of not a TV will matter.

 

[DNINE]

I would do a little more research on DVI inputs, I agree the PQ on a CRT

might not be a huge improvement but there are other things to DVI-HD

in and out puts. There may be some content in the future near or far in

HD or DVD's that you may not be able to view at all, the DVI is not just for digital quality there is DVI-HDCP (copy protection) that you might want to consider. I am not totally sure about this but it's worth checking out.

 

[ADU]

Whether or not DVI looks significantly better depends on how good the D/A conversion is in your external analog STBs compared to the TV's internal DVI D/A, how good the component inputs are on your TV, and how much loss there may be through the component cabling. DVI basically moves the D/A conversion down the pipeline, so the signal stays digital and free of loss longer. It shifts the responsibility for converting the digital video signals to analog from an external device to the TV itself. If the DVI input is well-implemented on the TV, then this downstreaming of the D/A should be very benefical.


After using both a DVI DVD player and an HTPC via DVI on a Sony TV, I never plan on going back to analog. One of the reasons is that DVI is just simpler and cheaper for me. Good external D/A conversion and anlog equipment is expensive. And all of the material I'm looking at on my TV now is digital anyway, so it's very convenient just to deliver it that way directly to the TV.


Digital inputs are still sort of work in progress, but I'm pretty sure as time goes by this will become even more of no-brainer than it is now. PQ is better via DVI on my TV. Colors are better defined, and clarity is better. DVDs scaled to 1080i via DVI look amazingly crisp, and very HD. I can't promise you'll see the same benefits, especially re OTA HD, but it's worth serious consideration IMO, and will give you greater flexiblity and compatability now and in the future.

 

[Dwe]

ADU summed it up nicely. I use my TV for PC gaming, so DVI is the way for me. If you are going to use your TV to video game from a HD source (PC is only one with DVI/VGA out right now), it would be advised to get the DVI/VGA option.


If you are not going to bother with gaming on your TV, then in general for the sake of argument, you are fine with what you have. The PQ will not be something you will notice to well, because component is just that good.


If you are a person like me, where your not rich, but you like to know that you have close to top-end features for a given product and you don't have to answer to anyone about your money, it would be advised to go for the DVI. DVI is just a feature that is currently very versatile and will be utilized, so it is worth having. I wouldn't have gotten into HDTV if they didn't have VGA or DVI connection.


Basically if money is a constriction, DVI will not blow you away over component, to have the bank cease your assets. If money is -not- a constriction, take the steps to get a DVI featured TV.


I learned over the years, when it comes to getting into a new category of products, its very important to research all aspects of the technology and features available (or will be available) before purchase. I wanted a new high quality TV for gaming (I use to just by the cheapest ones before) and I was seeing alot about HDTV. I knew nothing about HDTV, so I read up on it and saw talk about DVI/VGA inputs and realized that I wouldn't buy one unless it had those inputs on it.

Most important aspect of any medium to major purchase, is research.

 

[Frank J Manrique]

I recently purchased a Sony KV-40XBR800 40" CRT set to be the display device of a secondary ("small") HT system. This one has a DVI-D input; that is why I wound up selecting it over other cheaper options.

To the DVI-D input I have connected a Mobitsu 880 scaler DVD player and/or Samsung SIR-T165 STB/Mitsubishi 2000U D-VHS tape deck (Firewire interfacing between T165 and the deck). Both components output a 1080i signal into the Sony TV set.


Up-conversion or scaling of 480 signals to 1080i from DVD sources interfaced via DVI now look almost like Hi-Def, I kid you not, something that the analog component video (color space) input fed by a Sony DVD player doesn't quite match. Is a tremendous revelation to see just how much more we can still wring out of that old standard video format!


My advice: get ahead of the game and be prepared for the future; get a display device that is equipped with DVI-D input (s). You'll be sorry if you don't...


-THTS

 

[montreal]

There is another advantage to DVI that may not become apparent for some time.


Right now STB allow 720p and 1080i analog signals to proceed to your set.


In the future for copyrighted pay-per-view high res movies, your STB may be ordered by the incoming signal to not allow the STB to provide anything better than a 480p analog signal.


At that point you may regret not having DVI.

 

[Frank J Manrique]

Originally posted by montreal:


"In the future for copyrighted pay-per-view high res movies, your STB may be ordered by the incoming signal to not allow the STB to provide anything better than a 480p analog signal. At that point you may regret not having DVI."


That is the inherently sinister aim of the HCDP encryption protocols: the potential downrezing of HD material...


-THTS

 

[montreal]

Quote:

That is the inherently sinister aim of the HCDP encryption protocols: the potential downrezing of HD material...

Well yes and no. If the STB could give you 1080i analog and there was no way that you could convert it to digital and then store it on your PC's hard drive, then I think they would give you analog 1080i.


What they're counting on is that if anyone records a 480p copyrighted movie, then nobody would want to buy bootleg copies because everyone will want HD quality and not today's DVD quality.


For that to happen, displays will have to improve a lot in the next few years and/or come down in price.

 

[ADU]

Quote:

If the DVI input is well-implemented on the TV, then this downstreaming of the D/A should be very benefical.

For example, out of the box, I don't think DVI was implemented on my Sony 34xbr800 quite as well as I'd hoped.


The DVI signal seems to be converted to analog up front, and then simply passed through the same processing in the TV as the component signals, which includes some add'l A/D-D/A conversion. If the digital signal was routed directly to the digital processing circuits in the TV without the initial analog conversion, then I think the results might have been better.


Fortunately, montreal (da man) found a work-around which seems to bypass the A/D-D/A processing on 1080i altogether on some Sony's like mine. And IMO this seems to do much better justice to the quality of 540p/1080i DVI than before. (See the Signal Processing link in my signature for more on this.)

 

[Oliver Deplace]

If you find yourself losing sleep over the possibility that there may, in the future, be some incompatibility with your TV. Then spend the extra money and get the DVI port. While you have your credit card out, you may as well get the Sony KV-30HS510 for only $300 more than the DVI equipped Sammy. Or, for another $700 you could get the KV-30XBR910. Well, if you've gone this far, may as well spring for the 34" XBR (an excellent TV), it's only another $1000-$1300 and if you are considering this, then...

Seriously, if you decide that a DVI port is necessary, DO consider the 30" Sony HS510, but then again...

 

[ADU]

One could probably make an argument in favor of waiting for HDMI before going digital as well I suppose.

 

[montreal]

Quote:

One could probably make an argument in favor of waiting for HDMI before going digital as well I suppose

ADU,


When HDMI comes out, the big question is whether the audio in the bundled cable will be analog or digital. There is a claim that HDMI will be back-wards compatible and all one would need is a dongle to patch everything together. This would imply that the audio is analog and that today's DVI equipped sets will be adequate in the future as far as audio signal processing is concerned.


On the other hand, if it is digital audio that will be passed via the HDMI cable, will it be encrypted like the video and will there be outboard audio converters available to purchase?



P.S. Thanks for the compliment, but I didn't invent the bypass, I just concluded that Sony was bailing themselves out of the scrolling bar problem by using this dormant circuit rather than redesigning the B board.

 

[ADU]

I don't know if this means anything, but DVI (DVI-I to be precise) is certainly capable of transmitting both analog and digital video. Support for analog DVI video seems rare on consumer HDTV equipment though, I guess because the digital is just easier, better and simpler to do.