[Amiable-Akuma]

Two main things (among several others) are making me think that I should get out of the format war for at least a year:

-1.) HD DVD clearly out-sold BD in hardware and software by at least a 2:1 ratio, if not actually closer to a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio - yet no one cares. I thought the one thing studios/others would care about and respond to is sales - but apparently they don't even care about that right now. The events and reasons for things occurring in the war, are apparently, far less clear or sane to us then we thought. I realize now that, we can no longer assume or predict anything from reading insider information or even huge news/turns in press releases. The reason BD may still retain Fox as an exclusive could be something so obtuse as a backdoor deal with Sony agreeing to move "Spider-man 3" away from "Live Free and Die Hard" this summer. Apparently, back-door dealings, twisted promises, and obtuse reasoning are what's going to effect changes in this war - NOT the consumer. This makes me nauseous and uncomfortable just thinking about this, just realizing that this is completely true.

-2.) I hate everything about the Warner Total HD discs idea with a passion. And, about half the HD DVDs I currently own (40 total) are from Warner.


HOWEVER, I do realize that getting out of the war means that I will be depriving myself of great high-def titles for a while and that's not good. And even though that's not good - what would be worse is waiting a year or two and then seeing that either the format I chose from the beginning DID win completely or that both formats have turned into some successful DVD+/-R type beast, which means it was silly to get out as well. THEN AGAIN, the only thing worse than THAT - is seeing the side you chose to support completely lose or neither format win or succeed much at all - by which point we all look like we wasted some money/time.


See, the problem is - that thanks to being an anime and Asian film fan especially - and the SD DVD format being so popular/successful/easy to obtain/manipulate/back-up etc - I know that I can be reasonably satisfied with it for a good while. I know that great HD DVD discs are valueable and that none of what you own will disappear if the war doesn't go the way you want - but ****, why worry about fighting the battle for a while - when there is such a decent, strong, and sane viable alternative (in SD DVD)?


Still, I prefer high-def and would feel silly if I sat out to wait for a winner - only to see that neither format would even begin to turn the tide or die over the other for 5 or 10 years (thinking about how long it really took for SD DVD to overtake VHS in homes). And I mean, what's the point of sitting out with those kinds of time-frames?


What do YOU think? Let me know...

 

[Rob Zuber]

Who cares if the ratio is 100 - 1, but only a total of 202 discs were sold overall? It's the volume, not the ratio at this point. These companies have just begun to gear up for the war. I'm amazed that people would think they would jump so fast, especially since those theoretical ratios you mention are affected because HD-DVD came out first.

 

[DPowers]

Is money an issue or do you refuse to buy two players. I personally have never taken part in any "wars", because there is content from every format...be it games, movies, music that I love and want. I try to buy it all if I can.


This is my hobby and I am willing to fund it. If HD content is important to you, get your hands on both formats. If it isn't, don't worry about it. I have this feeling you will constantly hear that little voice in the back of your mind always pushing you to check ou the other format...especially if you take a "break" for a year.


I couldn't do it. I don't know how people don't want to buy both formats...if they can afford it.

 

[Amiable-Akuma]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DPowers /forum/post/0


Is money an issue or do you refuse to buy two players.

Both. Plus, I don't want to buy anything Sony or BD until I absolutely have to - knowing that that format is perfected and that Sony has been forced to change their ways to be 1000 percent more consumer-friendly than they are now, have been in recent years. See to me, HD DVD has done everything right by the consumer and BD has essentially done everything wrong by comparison. If we lived in a sane world where there was justice - HD DVD would be clearly and rightfully now set on the path to be the next format hands-down.


Instead though, I've been in this war, from the beginning, for six long months. Buying both formats, making a choice, reading all the news, etc. And yet nothing is really changing or even set to change. Rather, more wierd crap like Total HD is being introduced, not less. I'm starting to get tired. And thinking that BD could still truly somehow win despite all their fumbling around and HD DVD could lose, despite their relative perfection - makes me exhausted to continue.


I also want one format, period. I don't like the idea of two formats competing, two different types of packaging, different sets of standards for both, different companies on each side - even if both formats can "co-exist" and be "successful" so to speak. I want to see the next format we buy look a lot more like SD DVD before I really, really get into it. I don't think that's too much to ask. You'd think the studios/companies would know want we want thanks to the success, history of that format. But, of couse, they are still confused, greedy, and trashy.


I just don't think I can take much more of the bullsh*t.

 

[darinp2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma /forum/post/0


Two main things (among several others) are making me think that I should get out of the format war for at least a year:

-1.) HD DVD clearly out-sold BD in hardware and software by at least a 2:1 ratio, if not actually closer to a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio - yet no one cares. I thought the one thing studios/others would care about and respond to is sales - but apparently they don't even care about that right now.

Studios do care about long term sales. Consider a drag race where one car gets off the line quickly and then the other really gets going and is closing fast or catches up. Saying that everybody must think that the one that got off the line quicker must be the one they think will win wouldn't make sense. In fact, if one catches up then it is more likely to be the winner in general because it has the momentum. This war isn't nearly as simple as that and the leads could go back and forth, but just one example.


A studio making a decision today needs to think about future sales. They can't go get sales from last July. Those already happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma /forum/post/0


What do YOU think? Let me know...

Sounds like whether you sell things or keep the player and rent/buy/whatever, for your piece of mind it might be best to just enjoy the content you do get and not keep track of all the goings on around the war.


--Darin

 

[xbdestroya]

If even Amiable Akuma, a proud member of the cult of 'HD Now,' is wavering in his faith... what's next? Even sadder IMO is all these threads from confused - perhaps dazed is the better word - and rabidly anti-BD individuals who are now seeking outside advice from the world as to what course they should pursue to make sense of it all.


This sentence alone shows the level of disconnect, when Warner themselves is on record as 2:1.

Quote:
1.) HD DVD clearly out-sold BD in hardware and software by at least a 2:1 ratio, if not actually closer to a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio - yet no one cares.

Best of luck to you Amiable.

 

[Grubert]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma /forum/post/0


I don't want to buy anything Sony or BD until I absolutely have to [...]

I also want one format, period.

So just you want one format as long as it is not BD... Hmm...

And as xbdestroya said, software sales ratio during 2006 was 2:1, according to Warner.

 

[danieledmunds]

My answer is: buy an LG dual format player (OK no PIP, do I care?) and if one format fails, or both formats fail, just hold on to the discs until the formats get cracked then store them in whatever way is dominant. It seems silly to invest heavily in HD equipment and not use it and why pass up the chance to own a high bit rate 1080p copy of your favourite movie? I hate the idea of downloading movies (DRM, hard disk failure, download times etc.) and would much rather have them on disk.

 

[csmith75]

I think you should just stop all your constant worrying about "the war" and enjoy the content that you have available to you. The bottom line is that this is about enjoying movies in high-def.

 

[Big J]

I find this all rather amusing.

Amiable, who once stated that HD DVD has given us more than we deserve, has suddenly decided to call it quits? I thought you said you wouldn't watch SD anymore.

I think people are much too focused on the "war" and forget to enjoy themselves.

I got into HD DVD on a whim, because I needed a DVD player. I'm on record for saying that I think both formats will end up just being niche products. Not much has changed. Am I disappointed that Universal didn't make an announcement? Yes, but 95% of my viewing is SD DVD anyway, so if it becomes 97%, big deal. If BDA actually starts putting out movies I really want to see (Hint:I'm not a teenager), I'll probably buy a Blu-ray player too.

Right now, both formats are seriously lacking in content, and DVDs rule.

J

 

[Chris_TC]

It's quite simple really: customers are the soldiers of this war.

If all soldiers sit out the war, how will it ever be decided?

 

[Brian Shannon]

I enjoy what I have and waiting until it is decided, for me is a no brainer. A year is alot of current dvd enjoyment for me.

 

[fa8362]



Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds /forum/post/0


My answer is: buy an LG dual format player (OK no PIP, do I care?) and if one format fails, or both formats fail, just hold on to the discs until the formats get cracked then store them in whatever way is dominant. It seems silly to invest heavily in HD equipment and not use it and why pass up the chance to own a high bit rate 1080p copy of your favourite movie? I hate the idea of downloading movies (DRM, hard disk failure, download times etc.) and would much rather have them on disk.

How can you recommend something you've never used or even seen in person?

 

[eganov]

To the OP: You're way beyond just enjoying movies and have become personally involved in a "product" for Pete's sake. There's nothing wrong with companies negotiating complicated marketing deals with each other, there is no innate fairness in who gets to buy what hi definition dvd player for what reason and Sony isn't any more evil than Toshiba. For that matter, a lot of this "war" stems from the acrimony between Microsoft and Sun. If you are feeling nauseous, uncomfortable, deprived, treated unfairly, hateful of corporate decisions over a dvd player, financial unable to cover all bets, feeling you need to digest every press release on the subject, etc., my best advice is for you to get off the train for a while. Neither you personally or a few AV buffs are going to determine the future of hi def dvd's so you might as well relax and enjoy what you have today and let the market do what it does in its own time.

 

[Anamorphiac]

If you love HD and want to show the industries involved, buy one or the other. For me both is not an option for several reasons...so I have made the decision to support HD first (or I would have bought nothing) then second, I have made the decision to support one side only...so I put my consumer "vote / $'s" for that format. Might I be on the wrong side, possibly (though I think not still at present.) Third, don't let any "propaganda" scare or sway you...believe me you will know when this thing is decided (and it is not yet.)


Summary:

- Support HD disc if you want it to survive (if not STOP here.)

- Select your "side" based on your priorities, analysis and viewpoints (both is an option...just not for all or even most IMHO.)

- Stick to your guns...until the fat lady sings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma /forum/post/0


1.) HD DVD clearly out-sold BD in hardware and software by at least a 2:1 ratio, if not actually closer to a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio - yet no one cares.

I also would not say at this point that "no one cares" as far as the studios. WAY TOO EARLY to say "no one cares." Consumer dollars speak volumes, because in the end, THAT is how these organizations stay in business AND that is how stockholder value is increased.


Oh...and taking a break from the "propaganda train" including some AVS talk on these subjects can also clear your head a bit...

 

[noise36]

I bought in and jumped out quickly.


Its a waste of time till all new movies are coming out in one format.

 

[DPowers]

You should have never gotten to the point where you were so emotionally invested in this war. I always found it interested that people were more passionate about what company/format they support then the actual movies/games themselves. For most of us, it is simply about getting out hands on great content. My greatest concern now is which version to buy...that's why I am at this forum. Not to argue about Sony and MS.

 

[DPowers]



Quote:
Originally Posted by noise36 /forum/post/0


I bought in and jumped out quickly.


Its a waste of time till all new movies are coming out in one format.

If you can afford either or both players, why would "jump out". It's not like you are trading HD/BD for SD. Now you can enjoy all formats at you whim. It's not like you can't watch SD if you buy a BD player. If you are waiting for one format, you will be waiting for quite a while. I couldn't do it.

 

[wnorris]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma /forum/post/0


Two main things (among several others) are making me think that I should get out of the format war for at least a year:

-1.) HD DVD clearly out-sold BD in hardware and software by at least a 2:1 ratio, if not actually closer to a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio - yet no one cares. I thought the one thing studios/others would care about and respond to is sales - but apparently they don't even care about that right now. The events and reasons for things occurring in the war, are apparently, far less clear or sane to us then we thought. I realize now that, we can no longer assume or predict anything from reading insider information or even huge news/turns in press releases. The reason BD may still retain Fox as an exclusive could be something so obtuse as a backdoor deal with Sony agreeing to move "Spider-man 3" away from "Live Free and Die Hard" this summer. Apparently, back-door dealings, twisted promises, and obtuse reasoning are what's going to effect changes in this war - NOT the consumer. This makes me nauseous and uncomfortable just thinking about this, just realizing that this is completely true.

-2.) I hate everything about the Warner Total HD discs idea with a passion. And, about half the HD DVDs I currently own (40 total) are from Warner.


HOWEVER, I do realize that getting out of the war means that I will be depriving myself of great high-def titles for a while and that's not good. And even though that's not good - what would be worse is waiting a year or two and then seeing that either the format I chose from the beginning DID win completely or that both formats have turned into some successful DVD+/-R type beast, which means it was silly to get out as well. THEN AGAIN, the only thing worse than THAT - is seeing the side you chose to support completely lose or neither format win or succeed much at all - by which point we all look like we wasted some money/time.


See, the problem is - that thanks to being an anime and Asian film fan especially - and the SD DVD format being so popular/successful/easy to obtain/manipulate/back-up etc - I know that I can be reasonably satisfied with it for a good while. I know that great HD DVD discs are valueable and that none of what you own will disappear if the war doesn't go the way you want - but ****, why worry about fighting the battle for a while - when there is such a decent, strong, and sane viable alternative (in SD DVD)?


Still, I prefer high-def and would feel silly if I sat out to wait for a winner - only to see that neither format would even begin to turn the tide or die over the other for 5 or 10 years (thinking about how long it really took for SD DVD to overtake VHS in homes). And I mean, what's the point of sitting out with those kinds of time-frames?


What do YOU think? Let me know...

Just buy what you enjoy. If everyone supports their favorite format to the fullest, then it will only help that format last longer. If one side wins over the other, it doesn't mean your whole collection of hi-def discs is worthless. You will always be able to play them in your current player. In the future, its likely a few companies will come out with a player that supports both the winning and losing formats and is reasonably priced (just look at how many VHS/DVD combo decks there are).


Buy what you enjoy. Support the format you feel is best for you (not just the one you think will win).


I think, so what if I won't get to enjoy Star Wars on HD-DVD this year. It still doesn't mean I can't enjoy the 20-30 other movies that I will but this year. I'm horrible at getting hung-up on minor defects in a movie. If the storyline isn't absolutely top notch, my mind wonders and starts looking for digital artifacts. I watched both HD-DVD and BD movies before picking a side. On HD-DVD titles, I just had a tougher time seeing any artifacts, even when I was looking. Often I only noticed one or two per film. But when I watched a handful of BD discs, I could still find artifacts on every film in numerous places. Sure they were tiny and most people would never notice (my wife thought both formats looked the same, and thought the DVD version of Crank looked just as good upscaled on my 50" DLP, as it did on BD on a friends 42" LCD; so she thinks I'm just looking for something new to spend money on going hi-def). So you just need to watch both formats (preferably somewhere you can see both on the same hardware) and pick the one for you. And I don't see any need to stop buying HD discs because some studio made a backdoor deal. If you are really upset about the deals, don't watch the movies in theatres that you think are a part of the deal. That would punish the studios more than not buying discs.

 

[Amiable-Akuma]

Okay, thanks for your advice all. Based on all the above, etc - I have decided that I will continue to seriously support only HD DVD, as I have been, until it croaks (if and when). I have several upcoming HD DVD titles reserved and paid off at Movie Stop anyway. Plus, I have about $112 dollars of straight credit there that I set up specifically to buy more HD DVD in the future. Not sure what I would do with it, if I got out (obviously, SD DVD is watchable in a pinch but who can still seriously pay for it these days w/high-def out there). I'll continue to buy every movie that I think is even slightly worth re-watching, as I have very much enjoyed doing so.


You guys were right in your comments, and I think these are among the reasons I got wierd about it all:


-1.) You were right. I have gotten too emotional over all this ****. I thought it was me just being harmlessly interested/excited about watching the soap opera drama over the war - but I think I've unconsciously taken it much farther then that. I've taken to over-analyzing and studying over every war "event" in my mind et naseum. Obviously, when every other second I'm saying and thinking things like I'm "in love" with HD DVD or feeling "shocked" about some standard press release - then things have gotten funky. The problem, I think, largely, has just been coming to these boards too much. With the war on, AVS is sort of a blessing and a curse. I think it's much better for newbies who can just find some clarity/answers here. For technophiles who already know everything - we sort of naturally take to breaking down every rumor or news tidbit and what it means to the fourth circle of hell. Then if you are posting a lot and supporting one side - all this talking, defending, and helping of others you do - naturally makes you feel much more invested, much more like a "soldier" in the war. Not good, necessarily.


-2.) I HAVE been posting here, thinking about the war MORE than I have been just sitting down and enjoying the movies I own. In fact, I have about 18 movies that are still in their shrink-wrap that I haven't even watched. This is partially due to having to travel with work but also because I got more addicted to the drama of the war then in actually watching the movies. Again, not good.


-3.) I had found an easy way out in selling everything I have for a decent profit, and not a loss. Plus, my descretionary income is much lower these days due to other investments. So that was enticing - but who cares now, I see I would most likely regret the decision.


-4.) The two things I mentioned in my original post. I think the single-side HD DVD discs are about as good as it gets (though I buy the SD/HD combos too) - so that whole Warner Total HD idea is the opposite of what I want, want to see succeed. That means, I won't be buying those and that's a lot of content lost. Plus, not seeing at least more recognition from people beside Toshiba themselves - at all they had accomplished so far - at CES, at this point, etc - really puzzled me. It made the war look much less predictable and much more foggy. I thought the more us "experts" and geniouses here at AVS talked and analyzed things the more we would know and actually be able to predict. Turns out that I was naive and that probably the opposite is true instead.


-5.) Emotional or not - I think Sony/BD winning the war through primarily marketing alone would be god-awful. I read a bunch of print magazines as well and everyone still trumpets BD over HD DVD (for no objective or even sane reason) and misprints weaknesses and facts about HD DVD when they run their HD DVD vs BD articles. It's uncomfortable to see. Actually though, now that I think about it - this may actually be a reason to stay in the war for HD DVD and not one to get out...


Anyway, yeah, and so here are the reasons I've decided I'm gonna stick with it now:


-1.) I think coming to these forums less, trying not to think about the war, and just relaxing to enjoy the movies as a hobby and not a battle - will be about 5 times more enjoyable for me, personally, - then what I have been doing. Which was pretty much the opposite.


-2.) I've realized that the investment to stay in the war for HD DVD is actually very little. Maybe a couple hundred dollars (especially with discounts, trade-ins, promotions) for all the new software I want over the next year. And even if I wanted a great new player like the XA2, the street price on that after a handful of months here will only seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the value you're getting. Let's face it, a couple hundred dollars, or even 4 times that spent over the course of the year - will really seem like nothing - as we all continue to earn more, get on with our lives.


-3.) Both formats will be seeing several hundred new titles released before there is even a significant shift in the war at all, most likely. That's plenty/enough high-def to enjoy and to not want to miss out on. Plus, like an above user said (great point!) - buying a DVD-VCR combo-type equivalent deck when the war is in it's twilight years is likely to be as easy and cheap a solution as you could want.


EDIT: (Right, and oh yeah: REASON NUMBER FOUR. Porn has been confirmed to be coming to HD DVD soon. Not noting how this affects the war here, I no longer care about that war stuff. But I'm just saying: Porn in HD. How can I miss out on that, if for just the sake of curiousity alone? Hmm?!)


So anyway, right - it's all good now. The plan is: pretend the war doesn't exist, just buy all the movies I want, and enjoy the hell out of them. I'm gonna try to come to this forum, post a lot less, and live in peace. Maybe you'll see me on the HD DVD software forum a little or make another short comment here or there. BUT if ANYBODY sees me ever saying something even somewhat emotional, making long war-related thread starters, or creating "diatribe" posts (such as this?!

) - EVER AGAIN - then I give you permission to slap me, chastise me, or whatever you like.


Ok, well - thanks again, folks. I'll see you around.