I have an Infocus 7205 projector and am planning on purchasing a DVD player with DVI output. Out of curiosity, other than the DVI output, what is the benefit to have an upconverting DVD player (like Denon 1910 or 2910) if the projector already has the Faroudja 2310 chip (strictly looking at the video)?
is it necessary to use upconverting DVD player if projector has same processor
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The upconverting players with DVI/HDMI allow you to keep the signal digital throughout. The player deinterlaces the signal, upconverts it, and passes it digitally over DVI/HDMI to the projector for display. Non-DVI/HDMI players must convert the signal to analog to pass to the projector via component. The projector must then convert it back to digital for upscaling and display. Some info could get lost or distorted during this double conversion process. That is the theory, anyway.
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With the 2910 on my HT1000 DLP, I can see a difference.
The HT1000 has an image zoom mode. So I can take a nice sharp, complex DVD image and zoom it on the HT1000 at 410i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. Here is what I found.
480i/480p component & 480p DVI - were very close to each other, showing the same amount of alaising and noise.
720P DVI - had the best picture with any jaggies seen in the 480i/480p disappearing by atleast 50% and in many cases all together.
1080i DVI - almost as good as the 720p, but in come cases a very small amount of alaising came back to the image. I chaulk this up to the difference between the FLI-2310 in the 2910 doing the deinterlacing veruse the FLI-2200 in the HT1000 deinterlacing the 1080i image.
I find I still like to feed the 2910 to the HT1000 via 480i/480p component on some films. That would be on films with excessive EE, so that I can use the 2910 sharpness controls to dial back the visual impact of the EE. Films like StarGate are a good example of a DVD that I would watch over component rather than DVI.
Really nice DVDs like Blade II and others, with outstanding Mpeg mastering and really sharp detail in the source, look way better via DVI.
There is also a gamma reproduction issue. I had been using a RP-91 and it is no sloutch, but the 2910 DVI signal produces a much more HD-esque reproduction of gamma, giving the feeling the gamma has been expanded. It's a similar experince to what I had watching HBO-HD over DVI versus component.
HOWEVER... for as much of an improvement the 2910 has made with many DVDs, it still comes up a little short of a good HD broadcast. So, while I'll enjoy the benefits of the 2910 for now, there are still improvements to be made when we switch to the next level HD format playback and media.
The HT1000 has an image zoom mode. So I can take a nice sharp, complex DVD image and zoom it on the HT1000 at 410i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. Here is what I found.
480i/480p component & 480p DVI - were very close to each other, showing the same amount of alaising and noise.
720P DVI - had the best picture with any jaggies seen in the 480i/480p disappearing by atleast 50% and in many cases all together.
1080i DVI - almost as good as the 720p, but in come cases a very small amount of alaising came back to the image. I chaulk this up to the difference between the FLI-2310 in the 2910 doing the deinterlacing veruse the FLI-2200 in the HT1000 deinterlacing the 1080i image.
I find I still like to feed the 2910 to the HT1000 via 480i/480p component on some films. That would be on films with excessive EE, so that I can use the 2910 sharpness controls to dial back the visual impact of the EE. Films like StarGate are a good example of a DVD that I would watch over component rather than DVI.
Really nice DVDs like Blade II and others, with outstanding Mpeg mastering and really sharp detail in the source, look way better via DVI.
There is also a gamma reproduction issue. I had been using a RP-91 and it is no sloutch, but the 2910 DVI signal produces a much more HD-esque reproduction of gamma, giving the feeling the gamma has been expanded. It's a similar experince to what I had watching HBO-HD over DVI versus component.
HOWEVER... for as much of an improvement the 2910 has made with many DVDs, it still comes up a little short of a good HD broadcast. So, while I'll enjoy the benefits of the 2910 for now, there are still improvements to be made when we switch to the next level HD format playback and media.
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Bills2K was saying he can't tell us how BIG the difference is. In other words, it's so much better he couldn't put it into words!
To answer the original poster...
You don't have to use a digital out up-converting player. However, you still could (and should) benefit from the more direct all-digital path. The manufacturers are pretty much skipping the option of digital outputs WITHOUT upconverting features, but that doesn't mean you have to upconvert.
Try letting your DVD player upconvert, then try your projector. Pick the one that looks the best.
Additionally, some DVI/HDMI DVD players may not provide the flexibility in adjusting the picture through a direct-digital path. For those units, your display device will have to perform the job (to get control at all). And, if you can't get that level of control, you may find component output models more your liking.
| Originally posted by JimP bills2K What does your post mean?? You don't see any difference? |
To answer the original poster...
You don't have to use a digital out up-converting player. However, you still could (and should) benefit from the more direct all-digital path. The manufacturers are pretty much skipping the option of digital outputs WITHOUT upconverting features, but that doesn't mean you have to upconvert.
Try letting your DVD player upconvert, then try your projector. Pick the one that looks the best.
Additionally, some DVI/HDMI DVD players may not provide the flexibility in adjusting the picture through a direct-digital path. For those units, your display device will have to perform the job (to get control at all). And, if you can't get that level of control, you may find component output models more your liking.
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Quote:
Great point. The 2910 has a wide range of Picture Mode controls, that do not function over DVI.
So, I while choose 720P DVI or 480i/480p Component as a source from the 2910, depending on the film. That way at 480i/480p component, I can have the full range of additional picture controls if needed.
Unfortunately, the HT1000 also deactivates many picture controls when watching a component progressive source, and many more when watching a 720p/1080i DVI source. There are controls still available to work a little with the image, but far fewer than would be ideal.
| Originally posted by GreggPenn Additionally, some DVI/HDMI DVD players may not provide the flexibility in adjusting the picture through a direct-digital path. For those units, your display device will have to perform the job (to get control at all). And, if you can't get that level of control, you may find component output models more your liking. [/b] |
So, I while choose 720P DVI or 480i/480p Component as a source from the 2910, depending on the film. That way at 480i/480p component, I can have the full range of additional picture controls if needed.
Unfortunately, the HT1000 also deactivates many picture controls when watching a component progressive source, and many more when watching a 720p/1080i DVI source. There are controls still available to work a little with the image, but far fewer than would be ideal.
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Quote:
Also note that if your projector is outputting through DVI, it can't send a clean signal to your projector from your DVD, the least it can do is change the colorspace to RGB and deinterlace the signal so your projector won't get the same chance to improve the picture as your DVD player.
| Originally posted by GreggPenn Try letting your DVD player upconvert, then try your projector. Pick the one that looks the best. |
So if I was debating between the Denon 1910 and 2910 from strictly a video standpoint, the 1910 would be as good as the 2910 if I was to use it with the Infocus 7205. I am assuming this because the projector has the same processor (2310) as the more expensive 2910DVD player has. I can connect via DVI and let the projector do the processing for the same picture quality. Is this correct?
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I think no matter how you try to skin the cat, the 2910 will end up being the better choice. Maybe there is some set of conditions where the 1910 and 2910 would be a draw, and maybe that is outputting 480i component. But if that is the set of conditions, there are better choices like an older RP-91 to send 480i to the projector.
As soon as your into 480p/720p/1080i over DVI, the 2910 has proven to be the better machine I think.
| Originally posted by tjsbuyer So if I was debating between the Denon 1910 and 2910 from strictly a video standpoint, the 1910 would be as good as the 2910 if I was to use it with the Infocus 7205. I am assuming this because the projector has the same processor (2310) as the more expensive 2910DVD player has. I can connect via DVI and let the projector do the processing for the same picture quality. Is this correct? |
As soon as your into 480p/720p/1080i over DVI, the 2910 has proven to be the better machine I think.
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