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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would appreciate input from those with expertise. I have a pair of very musical Pinnacle PN 6+ speakers I recently acquired, and I am wondering if it is safe to use them as fronts for my Home Theater setup or not. I really don't want to do anything to damage or stress the speakers, as they are in immaculate condition, and the sound and detail they produce is exquisite. Should I hook up another pair of speakers when viewing DVDs instead of the Pinnacles?
 

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Nope. They will be fine. The stereo material you play will give them a much more demanding workout than HT use will. The demand in HT goes primarily to the sub and center.


But the question that immediately comes to mind is: how are you matching these rare speakers to the center channel? Does the center have the same drivers and of the same manufacturer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevdart /forum/post/0


Nope. They will be fine. The stereo material you play will give them a much more demanding workout than HT use will. The demand in HT goes primarily to the sub and center.


But the question that immediately comes to mind is: how are you matching these rare speakers to the center channel? Does the center have the same drivers and of the same manufacturer?

Thank you for your answer. Right now I just have a JBL center with two 3 inch woofers and a tweeter (the center came with my SCS145.5S system). I mainly listen to music though, and occasionally watch a movie. I am relieved that the speakers will be O.K. Another question that comes to mind, since these are almost certainly not video shielded and I am using a CRT television, is it possible to damage the speaker magnets by putting the speakers to close to my TV?
 

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Actually you may have the opposite problem - the field from the magnets in the speakers could affect the convergence of your CRT depending on how close they are and where the magnet structure sits in the box. If there is a problem, you'll probably notice it right away in the form of picture distortion, color error, and fuzzy edges on the sides of the TV closest to the speakers. You will not hurt the speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by agb2529 /forum/post/0


Actually you may have the opposite problem - the field from the magnets in the speakers could affect the convergence of your CRT depending on how close they are and where the magnet structure sits in the box. If there is a problem, you'll probably notice it right away in the form of picture distortion, color error, and fuzzy edges on the sides of the TV closest to the speakers. You will not hurt the speakers.

Thank you for your input. I am using a 27 inch Zenith behemoth, and will attempt to place the Pinnacles far enough away to avoid distortion of the picture. I really appreciate the expertise and feedback of the members here.
 

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is it much better if all the L/C/R speakers are of the same brand/model?


What about surround? I guess surround may not be as demanding right? Since it's creating some sound effect instead of moving the mood of the whole scene.....
 

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Just make sure you are setting them to Small and sending the bass to the sub. You don't want to risk damage to the woofers by sending loud loud bass to them. In movie soundtracks, there's a ton of (low) bass sent to the front channels, not just LFE.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13894094


Just make sure you are setting them to Small and sending the bass to the sub. You don't want to risk damage to the woofers by sending loud loud bass to them. In movie soundtracks, there's a ton of (low) bass sent to the front channels, not just LFE.

What if your Front speakers have Huge woofers?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avscienceforurm /forum/post/9513962


I have a pair of very musical Pinnacle PN 6+ speakers I recently acquired, and I am wondering if it is safe to use them as fronts for my Home Theater setup or not.

Do you use a sub or not? If so, set them to SMALL. No problems. If not, set them to LARGE but use some common sense. They should be fine.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs /forum/post/13894231


What if your Front speakers have Huge woofers?

If used with some common sense most speakers, even if they don't have "huge woofers", will work fine when set to LARGE, even WITHOUT a subwoofer and with the LFE being sent there.


Now, I'm sure someone is going to argue that sending the LFE to the front speakers will cause them to explode, but this is just not true. You may not be able to achieve reference levels, nor should you try, but, as I said, if you use some common sense you will not damage your speakers.


In anticipation of soon having to go to a 2-channel setup, I have tested using only my front speakers for movies with some of THE most demanding soundtracks and they do just fine. Remarkably well, actually.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs /forum/post/13894231


What if your Front speakers have Huge woofers?



How loud do you watch movies? It may not be a problem. But at the volume most people listen to and drool over the bass, I would be extremely careful about watching anything with a lot of (low) bass (WotW, Flight of the Phoenix, Hot Fuzz, etc.) with any speakers set to Large, at any decent volume.



Here are some things to think about:


-A subwoofer has a single dedicated driver (or more) with hundreds of watts or more, and its sole purpose is to reproduce the frequencies if about 100Hz and below. This makes them much more efficient at producing low bass, and can produce it at much higher volumes. That's the point of having a subwoofer - more bass.

-Woofers in full range speakers may go pretty low, but there are very few that go down to 20Hz or lower. There is bass in movie soundtracks at these frequencies, and the sub can do a better job of reproducing them than speakers.

-Woofers in speakers, no matter what size they are, are sharing 50~100 watts with the full 20Hz-20,000Hz frequency range. The lower the frequency, the more power it takes to produce volume (has to move speaker cone further). Trying to reproduce low bass eats up watts and can take away from the available dynamic range of power from the receiver for demanding movie scenes. If your sub has 300w for just 100hz and below, and your receiver has 100w for 20Hz-20KHz, trying to push low low bass through the speakers is very demanding on the receiver compared to how efficiently the sub can do it. If the receiver starts running out of power, that can lead to clipping, which can damage your speakers (tweeters). So you may not blow the woofer/driver, but you could end up blowing a tweeter.

-The woofers in the speakers themselves are reproducing maybe 500~1000Hz all the way down to 20Hz (if set to large). So trying to reproduce lower bass tones can possibly create distortion in the higher frequencies the driver is reproducing. You can also get distortion from the bass frequencies the drivers try to reproduce. You may damage your speakers, maybe not.

-Woofers in speakers don't usually go as low, or as strong, as subwoofers. Meaning that a 35Hz tone going to the mains may not be heard, or heard nearly as loud, as it would coming through the sub. So even if your speaker can play down to 40Hz, can it play a 40hz tone at the same volume your sub can (maybe 100~105dB or louder)?

-The placement of the speakers is probably not the best location in to reproduce bass, where the sub can be moved to the optimal location for bass.



-If you have large woofers in your speakers, instead of setting them to large and making them try to reproduce all bass frequencies, down to sub-20Hz, you can set them to Small and adjust the crossover lower (say 50 or 60hz instead of 80Hz), so they play more mid-bass but still leave the lowest frequencies to the sub. But rather than going by how big the drivers are, get a setup disc like Avia, along with an SPL meter, and run a bunch of tests to see what crossover point gives you the smoothest transition between sub and speakers, least amount of dips, etc. (will help you correctly set phase setting on the sub too). Based on where the sub and speakers are, there may be cancellations and phase issues (or weird bass peaks coming from the speakers or sub) at one xo frequency that clear up by raising or lowering the xo point in the receiver 10Hz.




Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim /forum/post/0


Now, I'm sure someone is going to argue that sending the LFE to the front speakers will cause them to explode, but this is just not true. You may not be able to achieve reference levels, nor should you try, but, as I said, if you use some common sense you will not damage your speakers.

You contradicted yourself here. You say it's impossible to damage the speakers, then say you need to use common sense. Well, there are always surprises and unexpected.


And at any rate, common sense would say "let the sub play those 110dB 20Hz bass slams, not the speakers."


What if you have the speakers set to large, are watching a movie for the first time, and find some crazy bass you didn't know was there?


The point of a subwoofer is to take the strain of reproducing bass off of the receiver and the speakers, assign that to a dedicated piece of equipment, and get much more volume. If you don't care about any of that, then why use a sub at all? If you don't have a sub, that's one thing. I would just be extremely careful about volume levels and pushing the speakers too hard - not having the volume too loud.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13894780


You contradicted yourself here. You say it's impossible to damage the speakers, then say you need to use common sense.

Where did I say it is "impossible to damage the speakers"?



If you don't use common sense, any speaker can be damaged, even when set to SMALL or when playing 2-channel music.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13894780


And at any rate, common sense would say "let the sub play those 110dB 20Hz bass slams, not the speakers."

And what if you do not have a sub? Are you one of these people who recommends "tricking" the receiver into believing you do so that the LFE will not be rerouted to the front speakers? Or even more extreme, setting the speakers to SMALL so as to avoid even the front channel bass being sent there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13894780


What if you have the speakers set to large, are watching a movie for the first time, and find some crazy bass you didn't know was there?

Again, what if you have no sub? Do you not believe you should set the receiver up as having NO SUB? That setting is there for a reason. If you have no subwoofer you should set your receiver up as having NO SUB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13894780


The point of a subwoofer is to take the strain of reproducing bass off of the receiver and the speakers, assign that to a dedicated piece of equipment, and get much more volume. If you don't care about any of that, then why use a sub at all? If you don't have a sub, that's one thing. I would just be extremely careful about volume levels and pushing the speakers too hard - not having the volume too loud.

Well, believe it or not, there are plenty of people who do not use truly full-range speakers, who do not use a subwoofer, and who reroute the LFE channel to their front speakers with no issues.


Again, with any usage of a speakers -movies, music, SMALL, LARGE, or LARGE w/NO SUB - a little common sense is useful. A tweeter can just as easily be blown as a woofer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMbEst /forum/post/13891652


is it much better if all the L/C/R speakers are of the same brand/model?


What about surround? I guess surround may not be as demanding right? Since it's creating some sound effect instead of moving the mood of the whole scene.....

It is very important to match your front, center and surround speakersto not just the same manufacturer but to the same product line within the manufacturer. If your salesman is not reccomending this to you then I reccomend you find a new salesman. The subwoofer does not need to be matched.


-Jonathan
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim /forum/post/13894882


...

Yes, plenty of people have no sub, or listen through TV speakers. You just set it up with no sub, and be careful not to turn it up very loud so as to not damage the speakers.


But not having a sub wasn't part of the discussion.


The discussion was about re-routing bass from speakers to the sub, and the question that came up was "what if the speakers have large woofers?" And my suggestion was still to re-route bass (maybe with a lower xo point) to the sub.
 

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run them large and play the movie Pulse at 0db
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/13895774


But not having a sub wasn't part of the discussion.


The discussion was about re-routing bass from speakers to the sub..............

A sub was never part of the discussion. It is still unclear whether the OP has a sub or not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk /forum/post/13895809


run them large and play the movie Pulse at 0db

Why?


I have no problem at all playing a 20Hz tone through my front speakers at reference volume. Nothing happens, really.


I have played several of the "demo dvds" that are available on this site at really high volumes through my front speakers, with the LFE rerouted, with no issues at all. That's many of the heavy-duty scenes from WoTW, FotP, The Haunting, etc., Monster House, etc., etc.. Now, maybe my speakers have some sort of high-pass filter below their low end capability, but I doubt. My experience with speakers is that if they are sent something they are not meant to reproduce, then they don't try.



This crap has been argued before many times, here. It's simple. If you don't have a sub, set your receiver up as having NO SUB. Anyone trying to get reference volume out of a pair of 5.25" woofered bookshelves is a fool anyway.


Never have I seen a post here where someone has complained about blowing their speakers because they sent LFE to them. Not one. (Of course, maybe they were too embarrassed to post.
)
 

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I think I just opened a can of worms.


I thought most speakers with a true crossover filtered out the frequency's below it's minimum hertz range in order to protect the drivers.


But most entry level speakers usually don't have a true crossover instad they have a capacitor to protect the tweeters and midranges from being "scared" by the wrong frequencies.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs /forum/post/13896252


I thought most speakers with a true crossover filtered out the frequency's below it's minimum hertz range in order to protect the drivers.

I've never heard of anything like that in speakers. Some subs have filters, but I've never heard of it in speakers. That's what bass management in the receiver is for.


Here are my speakers, running Large for a test tone in my room:
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim /forum/post/13896017


A sub was never part of the discussion. It is still unclear whether the OP has a sub or not.


By OP do you mean the OP of this thread, or the person that asked the question about having large drivers? I was specifically responding to the person that asked the question about large drivers, not the OP of the thread.


The person that asked about large drivers was asking in response to me saying that bass should be re-routed from the mains to the sub. He asked "what if the front speakers have huge drivers?" not "what if you don't have a sub?" I took that as "I have a sub" and "should I still re-route bass to my sub, even though my speakers have huge drivers?" So theoretically, if you have mains with a single 8" driver, powered by a 100wpc receiver, plus a 12" sub with 400w, it's still a good idea to set the speakers to small (xo at 80Hz or whatever works best) and let those 8"ers handle the mid-bass and higher bass freqs, and let the sub do what it does best - bass.
 
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