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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I exceeded my upgrade budget buying the Denon 2805. Based on what I hear from the forum, I'd love to get an external amp primarily to power my mains and let the Denon do the rest (I've been playing with 7.1 lately), but really can't afford it right now. This whole external amp idea fascinates me, but it's extremely new to me.


Can my old receiver (it has 5.1 external analog inputs) be used to only power my mains (or only the surrounds, or only whatever) after the Denon processes the signal? Or is this approach just way too mickey mouse to be of any real benefit? Would there likely be sound quality degradation?


The idea is that all speakers but the mains would come from the Denon directly, but the mains would go from the Denon pre-out to the 5.1 in on my old receiver, then from the old reciever to the main speakers. Or if there was some sound quality issue, I'd have the old receiver power the surrounds or something where it wouldn't be noticed as much (My mains are much better than my surrounds). This would allow the Denon to put more power into fewer outputs, am I right?
 

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I'm not an expert but that should work. If you do it though, use the mains on the Denon and let the old one do the surround work. The 2805 has al24 processing on the front channels and most likely a better amp section than your old reciver.
 

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Forget it, because it won't work!

You can not just send a pre-out signal form one AVR into a 5.1 analog input of another AVR. You would need a AVR that has both pre-out's AND pre-ins, and not just pre-outs to do what you want to do. The 5.1 analog inputs are not the same thing as pre-ins where it goes direct to the amp section of a AVR, so it will not work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla
Forget it, because it won't work!

You can not just send a pre-out signal form one AVR into a 5.1 analog input of another AVR. You would need a AVR that has both pre-out's AND pre-ins, and not just pre-outs to do what you want to do. The 5.1 analog inputs are not the same thing as pre-ins where it goes direct to the amp section of a AVR, so it will not work.
But that's exactly what 5.1 External Inputs are for. I could connect an external Processor (with 5.1 or 7.1 Pre-Outs) to my Denon's 5.1/7.1 External Decoder Inputs and use it as a poweramp.
 

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The best way to accomplish what you want for 5.1 would be to use the surround pre-outs from the 2805 into any line level input from the old receiver, say the CD input.


The Denon will already have done the necessary surround processing.


You then set the old receiver to "two channel stereo, large, subwoofer off" ... this will allow the signal from the Denon to be passed through with no additional processing. You will connect the surround speakers to the main speaker binding posts on the old receiver.


Then - you will need to recalibrate your system, using the volume on the old receiver to make sure the output matches the volume on your front three speakers being driven by the Denon.


Once this is done, leave the old receiver alone - the volume control on the Denon will be all you need to use.


You will now be running just the three mains from the Denon, and the two surrounds from the old receiver.


For 7.1, send the side surrounds to the 5.1 main inputs (L/R front) and the rear surrounds to the surround L/R on the old receiver. The 5.1 center and subwoofer will not be connected.


Put the old receiver into 5 channel stereo if you can, as this typically has the least amount of processing. Also - as above, set the subwoofer to off, and the phantom center channel to on with the old receiver.


Re calibrate your system using the old receiver's volume, and you will be running the front 3 speakers from your Denon, and the 4 surrounds using the Denon's processing, but the old receiver's power amps. And, as above, the Denon's volume control will handle both receivers at this point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase H
But that's exactly what 5.1 External Inputs are for.
No they are not.

Analog 5.1 external inputs are not the same thing as pre-ins. Pre-ins are a direct input to the amp, analog 5.1 inputs are not, analog 5.1 inputs still go to the pre-amp. When a AVR the has pre-ins and pre-outs, it usually has them connected by a jumper bar, and when you remove the jumper bars you are also both electrically and mechanically completely disconnecting the pre-amp section of the AVR from the amp section. And trying to do what is mentioned here, with the 5.1 analog ins. You are still going through the pre-amp section of the 2nd AVR first before it even gets to the amp.
 

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I'll have to politely argue this one John. :)


The External Decoder Inputs on my Denon (upgraded AVR 5800) bypass the Pre-Amp and pass the signal straight through for amplification. Later models have an option to engage Bass Management (for SACD/DVD Audio players without decent bass management) or not (leaving the signal untouched).


I know there are models out there with jumper bars though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
wow, lots of thoughtful responses so far. Thanks. Sounds like this is at least worth a try, but may not work at all based on some of the feedback. I'll post back the results when I give it a shot.


So am I correct in thinking that this allows my 2805 to have more power for the other channels?


And although I may get a lousy result, this won't break anything?
 

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Quote:
The External Decoder Inputs on my Denon (upgraded AVR 5800) bypass the Pre-Amp and pass the signal straight through for amplification.
How do you control the volume?
 

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Originally Posted by TonyBDA
How do you control the volume?
With the volume knob on the Denon. I suppose you'll now say that's part of the Pre-Amp and knacker my argument. LOL
 

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I suppose you'll now say that's part of the Pre-Amp
You assured us that the signal is passed straight through to the power amp...I guess you were mistaken.


BTW...since that volume control IS NOT a 6 gang pot, your signals pass through an electronic attenuator and a couple of op-amps as well....not "straight through".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBDA
You assured us that the signal is passed straight through to the power amp...I guess you were mistaken.
I must be and stand corrected if that's the case but I still find it rather strange that External Decoder Inputs would use the Pre-Amp. If the analog signal isn't being converted to digital then what happens to it and where does it go to?


Quick Edit. I see you've answered that. Looks like I'll have to re-consider what I thought was part of the Pre-Amp and what isn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBDA
How do you control the volume?
Hang on. I'm going crackers!. If I use an External Decoder/Processor (e.g Lexicon) then I'd use the Volume Control on that. If the source is a DVD Audio/SACD player then I'd use the Denon's volume.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of Pre-Amp. I assumed that if an incoming analog signal is left untouched (100% analog bypass) then it isn't going through the Pre-Amp section. If the incoming signal is digital or an analog signal that is then converted to digital then it would be using the Pre-Amp section. If someone could clarify this point it would be appreciated. :)


Edit. Asked a more knowledgable person and got the answer that basically the volume control still forms part of the Pre-Amp. The 5.1/7.1 analog input connections still have to go through the volume control before they are passed on to the power amps. That they undergo no A-D, D-A conversion is irrelevant. The DSP section is just the front half of the Pre-Amp which gets bypassed by analog direct connections.


That clears up my misunderstanding about the Pre-Amp etc. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidermanpants
Guys,


Don't listen to Jase H, he only has eyes for Denon products and he's from Spain! :rolleyes:
LOL. Just because I've pinched one of your subs off you....... :D
 

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Quote:
Asked a more knowledgable person and got the answer that basically the volume control still forms part of the Pre-Amp.
gee, you could have just read this thread for the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for all the comments. I'd still love for someone to sound in on the following two questions:


1) Am I correct in thinking that powering the surrounds with the extra receiver allows my 2805 to have more power for the other channels (mains and front), so in theory they should sound better/be easier for the 2805 to power?


2) And although as some of you noted I may not be pleased with the result, this shouldn't break anything in either reciever if I do it right?
 

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when One says to use an amp for the main speakers you are using Just that, AN AMP ( not a receiver, or an intergrated amp just a 2 channel amp) Basically something without a volume control ( your receiver will now be doing that as it will be acting as the preamp.



Use the preamp out from your receiver ( left front, right front ) in to the amp. then calibrate the system...... DONE.





Quote:
gee, you could have just read this thread for the answer.


Do you ever have anything nice to say. BIOYA
 

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If you want to have a different amp power the rears and the mains save your money and just buy SEPERATES ( BTW im not yelling ) sorry
 
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