AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pull 1080i from the disc and upscale to 1080p?

If this is true this will become a NO NO to me :mad: as I already have a good scaler to upscale 1080i to 1080p.

Can someone here really prove that is the case? or just speculations?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,423 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeli662
Pull 1080i from the disc and upscale to 1080p?

If this is true this will become a NO NO to me :mad: as I already have a good scaler to upscale 1080i to 1080p.

Can someone here really prove that is the case? or just speculations?


Here is what Kris Deering wrote:
Quote:
While I am really interested in Amir's take on these titles, I wish he had a different player to evaluate with. The Samsung doesn't do a non-processed 1080P output. The broadcom chip is only outputting up to 1080i. It is using the new Genesis FLI chip to do 1080P out, and frankly I am not that impressed with the new Faroudja processing. It is doing chroma filtering despite the fact that the Broadcom chip does not have CUE issues and it won't even let 1080i go through unprocessed. If it at least did that then I could use another true 1080i de-interlacing solution that didn't filter. I am hoping that the Sony or Pioneer player won't have this issue, but this alone would prevent me from buying the Samsung. It would be almost impossible to say if the issues you were seeing were from the software or player (unless of course you could verify that the VAIO didn't have any video processing being done and output from that to compare the issues, but I guess that won't be until later).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,800 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeli662
Pull 1080i from the disc and upscale to 1080p?

If this is true this will become a NO NO to me :mad: as I already have a good scaler to upscale 1080i to 1080p.

Can someone here really prove that is the case? or just speculations?
I was told by one of the manufacturers that the discs are mastered in 1080p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
718 Posts
I think, to translate what everyone has said:


- The discs are all 1080p, as are HD-DVD discs.

- The HD-DVD players only output 1080i from the 1080p, though future HD-DVD players will do proper 1080p.

- The Samsung BD-P1000 converts the 1080p to 1080i in it's processing, then deinterlaces it to 1080p for output... so it DOES to 1080p but not without an intermediate step.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild
I think, to translate what everyone has said:


- The discs are all 1080p, as are HD-DVD discs.

- The HD-DVD players only output 1080i from the 1080p, though future HD-DVD players will do proper 1080p.

- The Samsung BD-P1000 converts the 1080p to 1080i in it's processing, then deinterlaces it to 1080p for output... so it DOES to 1080p but not without an intermediate step.
Which softens the picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1
Why can't it go straight from 1080p to 1080p?
The Broadcom chip converts to 1080i and only 1080i.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
Isn't the content just 1920x1080 - no i or p - but rather at 24/30/60 fps with the appropriate flags? The Broadcom chip in the Sammy - it seems - outputs 1080i, which is then deinterlaced by the Genesis chip to 1080p, which is where it is mucking up the picture, as per Kris Deering. That would suggest that the Toshiba is really better off at this moment because of leaving the deinterlacing to be done outside the player, and delivering better picture because of that decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Very interesting, Thats why when I combo my BP1000 to VP30 and ruby I can see a clear difference in PQ compaired to BP1000 + Ruby. Connecting the BP1000 to the VP30 sets the the BP1000 to go into 1080i, then the VP30 upscale to 1080p. I think :eek: .

On the other hand if I connect direct to the Ruby sets the BP1000 to out put 1080p bypassing the Ruby's internal scaler, which is probably better then the BP1000.

Any comments on this? and has anybody here with the same set up noticed that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,234 Posts
It still stands the same chance of being "mucked up" with whatever deinterlacer happens to be in the display. In either case, you don't really have control over the matter, unless you specifically go as far as having an outboard deinterlacer in your setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
Please be specific with topic titles.


See my edit.
My question here wasn't about 1080p but the fact the BP1000 pull 1080i from a 1080p disc.

It wasn't necessary to edit my title as the 2 first answers my question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky
It still stands the same chance of being "mucked up" with whatever deinterlacer happens to be in the display. In either case, you don't really have control over the matter, unless you specifically go as far as having an outboard deinterlacer in your setup.
As it stands, it seems to be a fault of the Sammy and its deinterlacing chip. If the player had an option to bypass the internal scaler - which it apparently does not, as per Kris Deering - it would have been better, instead of saddling the user with a poor implementation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,345 Posts
Basically, in order to get on the 1080p bandwagon, and still make their market date, they introduced a hardware step to get '1080p' so they could at least say 'we have 1080p'. Toshiba could have done the same exact thing Samsung did with their chip, and said 'look, we have 1080p too'


I'd rather Samsung had just left well enough alone, and done 1080i well, as opposed to their half assed 1080p measure. I guess the big marketing ploy for BD is to milk that 1080p for all it's worth though.


It may have been a BDA initiative as well, to require that all BD players output 1080p...


Don't forget, there are many masters out there done at 1080i, being released on both HD DVD and BD... They may be 1080p on the discs... but they might be taken from 1080i masters... which means you'll go: 1080i Master -> 1080p on disc -> 1080i Output from BD/HD DVD Player and finally, a potential 1080i -> 1080p final conversion on the Sammy....


That seems like an awful lot of work to do nothing (;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,024 Posts
And also as we've seen with some HD-DVD titles older 1080i masters are getting bobbed, which basically cuts the vertical resolution in half... 1920x540p.


Warner Brothers has said they have learned from their mistakes, whatever that means. However, other studios also have a boat load of old 1080i masters and may get mucked up too. I doubt these cheap so and so's (they're cheap when it makes sense to do it right like with film transfers and restoration, but extravagent when it comes to corporate salaries and outrageous star pay checks) will give all of these films brand new state-of-the-art telecine transfers and properly record them in progressive format.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullgates
Here is what Kris Deering wrote:


While I am really interested in Amir's take on these titles, I wish he had a different player to evaluate with. The Samsung doesn't do a non-processed 1080P output. The broadcom chip is only outputting up to 1080i. It is using the new Genesis FLI chip to do 1080P out, and frankly I am not that impressed with the new Faroudja processing. It is doing chroma filtering despite the fact that the Broadcom chip does not have CUE issues and it won't even let 1080i go through unprocessed. If it at least did that then I could use another true 1080i de-interlacing solution that didn't filter. I am hoping that the Sony or Pioneer player won't have this issue, but this alone would prevent me from buying the Samsung. It would be almost impossible to say if the issues you were seeing were from the software or player (unless of course you could verify that the VAIO didn't have any video processing being done and output from that to compare the issues, but I guess that won't be until later).
Very interesting. I didn't know about all this.


Rhoniel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,805 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeli662
My question here wasn't about 1080p but the fact the BP1000 pull 1080i from a 1080p disc.

It wasn't necessary to edit my title as the 2 first answers my question.
"Is it true that Blu-ray...."


isn't an acceptable thread title as it is unnecessarily vague.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,563 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
"Is it true that Blu-ray...."


isn't an acceptable thread title as it is unnecessarily vague.
Cpanther! give us a break and stop being so anal!

let people state their opinions please!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviec
Cpanther! give us a break and stop being so anal!

let people state their opinions please!
How is he being anal. The original title was vague.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top