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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm hunting for a new tv and am leaning towards lcd now since I hate the rainbow effects of dlp and plasma I'd only get top of the line but i cant afford that yet. I'm looking at the Sony 55" HDTV (KDF-55WF655) and my son loves videgoames. Will this have any adverse affect on the display or tv itself.


Also does anyone know if there are dvi or hdmi inputs for any gaming system available.


Thanks for your input guys and appreciate any and all response.
 

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Firstly, that TV is actually a rear-projection LCD TV. That said you shouldn't have any issues playing video games. With that in mind it would be a good idea to see if you can drag in an XBox or Playstation 2 to see if you like what the TV looks like. Visual quality is a VERY subjective thing and I would highly recommend that you closely examine the TV and watch it using a variety of video souces (DVD, HDTV, regular NTSC TV, etc). Bring your son along and see what he has to say.


As far as I know, today's video game systems don't have any digital video outputs but I would guess that the next generation of consoles will almost certainly have HDMI connectors on them. When will such consoles ship? Beats me but currently all consoles out there are getting a bit long in the tooth and I'd probably say that we're due for a new generation within the next 18-24 months, if not sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I believe all the next gen systems will be using dvi or hdmi but won't be available till 2006? Also with the built in tuner would that cause any problems with that or actually improve the picture.
 

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Quote:
I'm hunting for a new tv and am leaning towards lcd now since I hate the rainbow effects of dlp and plasma I'd only get top of the line but i cant afford that yet. I'm looking at the Sony 55" HDTV (KDF-55WF655) and my son loves videgoames. Will this have any adverse affect on the display or tv itself.
LCDs can never suffer burn in and are great displays for gaming. Plasma would be a poor choice for gaming since it suffers burn in pretty fast. A rear projection LCD set would be a good choice but you might also want to look at this JVC HDTV . Besides having an exact resolution of 720x1280, compared to the odd resolution of 768x1368 used by Sony's TVs, DILA will have a better contrast ratio. JVC's website provides a bit more information on this TV.

Quote:
I believe all the next gen systems will be using dvi or hdmi but won't be available till 2006? Also with the built in tuner would that cause any problems with that or actually improve the picture.
Would definitely recommend a TV with an HDMI input or at the very least a DVI-HDCP input. Also an ATSC tuner only deals with receiveing broadcast digital signals and would not affect the picture quality of a display.
 

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[EDIT: Urrhh, the post from Michael that I was responding to appears to have vanished. I'll leave the reply here anyway in case he is still looking for this info.]



Michael,

The difference in this display's native resolution vs standard transmission resolution (768 vs 720) has to do with arcane issues of manufacturing and yield in the display production process. Not to worry, the display will handle the conversion (scaling) so that you can see a 720p or 1080i HDTV or upscaled DVD image correctly. Any display which does this poorly will get knocked pretty regularly in reviews.


That said, some displays do a better job of this when fed a 1080i signal, others when fed a 720p signal. Curiously, it is *NOT* always the case that they do the best scaling job when fed the signal that's closest to their native pixel count. And sometimes how well they do this also depends on whether they are being fed an analog signal (as with Component cables) or a digital signal (as with HDMI or DVI cabling). Try each and see which you like better. Also if fed a standard TV 480i signal or a progressive DVD's 480p signal, that too will be scaled to the displays internal pixel count.


Keep in mind that if you are feeding a digital 720p or 1080i signal to your display from the HDMI or DVI output of an "upscaling" or "upconverting" DVD player, then what you are actually seeing is 480i data -- the only data that's actually on any DVD today -- converted up to that resolution by the DVD player, and then converted again by your display to its native pixel count. It would be natural to assume this double conversion would be worse than passing the unmodified 480i data to your display and letting the display do the one and only conversion necessary to match it's physical pixel count. Due to arcane details of how this is done, however, that is by no means always the case. Often the quality of the conversion in the DVD player is better, and/or the elimination of conversions between digital and analog format that can be achieved by letting the DVD player do the job and then send over an HDMI or DVI digital video signal, outweighs the cost of an extra scaling step. Again, try various combinations and judge for yourself which result you like best.


The comment on "94%" of a 720p signal has to do with how the display is setup by the manufacturer as regards "overscan". I.e., the factory has set the horizontal and vertical image sizes so that part of the image is lost behind the edges of the display. They do this because it makes it less likely you will see noisy edges if there's a problem in the source content. Some TV programs, for example, get shifted up and down a bit and if there were no overscan you'd see noise on the top or bottom. This has become much less of a problem than it was many years ago, and indeed some displays offer user level controls to adjust the overscan so that you can see the entirety of the signal. But if you do so, you will occasionally, even today, encounter noisy edges from some source devices and with some source content. In that case you would either live with the noise for the duration of that program, or reset enough overscan to eliminate it during that program. If you do adjust the horizontal and vertical image size, be sure to adjust both so that circles remain looking like circles and not ovals.

--Bob
 

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Bob,


Thanks for the answer. I actually deleted my post in an attempt to list it separately, but you've provided enough information to satisfy my curiosity.


My main question had to do with the differing screen resolutions (720x1280 vs. 768x1366) and how each one would handle a 720p signal.


Thanks,


Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What i've noticed on my sammy lcd which is only 17 inches the picture for video games is not terrible but the edges are very blurry. I have tired to fix the picutre just fiddling around with the tv's settings and no luck. My concern with the bigger tv is that the picture would be almost unplayable for non high def supported games.

I'm definately going with hdmi input tvs but whats the difference between hdcp and hdmi.
 

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Current crop of LCD displays do not make great gaming platforms due to slow response time. I have my kids using a Sharp LCD and they complain all the time on their racing games with motion blur. The newer sets with 12ms response time do better though.


As someone else mentioned, see if you can try the set with a fast moving game to make sure this is not a problem for you. Plasmas do burn in but have ultra fast response time so this is not a factor for them.


Amir
 

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Oh no. Here we go again!!

Quote:
Plasma would be a poor choice for gaming since it suffers burn in pretty fast.
Richard Paul:


I suggest you read The Master Burn-In thread at the top of this forum.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by amirm
Current crop of LCD displays do not make great gaming platforms due to slow response time. I have my kids using a Sharp LCD and they complain all the time on their racing games with motion blur. The newer sets with 12ms response time do better though.


As someone else mentioned, see if you can try the set with a fast moving game to make sure this is not a problem for you. Plasmas do burn in but have ultra fast response time so this is not a factor for them.


Amir
I just bought a Samsung LT-P227W and it has a 16ms response and I play PC games as well as consoles on it and I don't see any blur in fast moving games.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What I don't understand with my Sammy LT-P1795W I am unable to view any video for the pc. I just get a blank black screen instead of where the video should appear.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Paul
LCDs can never suffer burn in
Ummm. LCD's can certainly suffer burn in. See the master thread at the top of the forum.

Quote:
and are great displays for gaming.
LCD's are poor for games that have fast movement as LCD pixel response time is not very impressive.

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Plasma would be a poor choice for gaming since it suffers burn in pretty fast.
IMO, plasma is a good gaming choice, provided that you take reasonable care to avoid static images. Large, bright, wide angle, fast responding. In any event, current plasmas are reputed to achieve almost CRT resistance to burn in, so the above statement is out of date.

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A rear projection LCD set would be a good choice but you might also want to look at this JVC HDTV .
Some would agree with you, but I would never choose a LCD RPTV for gaming. Aside from viewing angle issues and dimness, the LCD response time blurs motion on a lot of games.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
But are there any plasmas under 4000 that are suitable for gaming and will last longer than 5 years and still be suitable for great hdtv programming?
 

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my liquidvision 17" lcd has a 16ms advertised response time and i only play fps games and they look great. i haven't noticed anything peculiar about the video quality or that i find distracting.



btw, if you go to the sony metreon, they have all their gaming stations set up with lcds with horrible response times (at least 30+ ms). but even with the obvious motion blur, the games are totally playable.


edit:


also, if you are a heavy gamer, i would not take chances with burn-sensitive display technologies. i had a toshiba 40h80 (crt rptv) a few years ago and noticed minor burn-in after two hours of gaming. i don't know how plasmas compare to crt rptvs in that respect, though, since i've never owned one.


and no, lcds do not suffer from burn-in. i'm on my computer for up to eight or ten hours at a time, during which toolbars at bottom and top of screen are totally stationary.
 

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Quote:
LCD's are poor for games that have fast movement as LCD pixel response time is not very impressive.
Once again, I just bought a Samsung LT-P227W and it has a 16ms response and I play PC games as well as consoles on it and I don't see any blur in fast moving games.
 

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Take a look at the newest models of Sharp LCDs. I looked at a few over the weekend and stood almost parallel to the TV and there was really no darkening of the tv as you might expect from an older LCD. That problem, as well as the motion blur from slow response times, are really not an issue any longer on a decent LCD.


And with games, since you're generally getting a clean digital signal, you usually want the most resolution you can possibly get. LCDs beat plasmas hands-down in this regard.
 

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The actual response time of an LCD is actually lower than the advertised values. What's worse, the spec is the "rise time" meaning it assumes going from dark to a really bright pixel. In reality, pixel lvalues don't change this much in each frame (i.e. go from one shade to another rather than from black to white). The response time is even slower in these scenarios. Dynamic drive (such as the on in new Sharp 45") try to get around this problem by initially targetting a brighter pixel value and turning off at the right time but unless it is done carefully, it can cause overshoot (hence the reason Sharp lets you turn it off).


So there is no question that some amount of blurring is still going on even with the best LCDs. But whether that's an issue for game play or not, will have be up to the person playing the game. After all, my kids play on our slow reponse LCD, even though it smears really bad.


Amir
 

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Thanks for explaining what Dynamic Drive is, I've been curious how exactly that works.


On my gaming LCDs, the only time I see smearing or blurring is when I'm playing Richard Burns Rally on a snowy stage, where just about everything is either black or white, and so I get a bit of blurring as I drive about. But, even then it's not troubling.
 

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Here's another testimony for LCDs. I have a Sharp 37G4U, and have detected ABSOLUTELY NO motion blur on anything I've watched. This includes all kinds of sports and lots of Xbox.


I have an older LCD by Sharp that definitely has motion blur when watching some sporting events. When I was debating what to get in a larger size, I definitely took the motion blur into account but was very pleasantly surprised by the new Sharps.
 
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