[grollins]

Hello, I just built my first screen. I used blackout cloth with a velveteen border. I have a Sony VW12HT projector and am wondering if I should paint the blackout cloth. My room is completely light controlled.


Thanks for any advice.

 

[Jesse S]

Check this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=185251

 

[Scruffy]

Grollins


Don't wait, run to your local art store or home improvement centre and purchase that paint. If you have the equipment, spray paint your blackout cloth. I hesitated for a year and that is my bigest regret. There is a major improvement in the screen performance and I highly recommend the process.


Peter

 

[grollins]

Thanks for the info. I believe I will try to paint it with white Gesso paint. From the other threads I have read, that seems like the preferred way.


If I were to paint it with white Gesso, how much difference would I see with a professional screen, like the Stewart Grayhawk? Would it be very noticeable?


Thanks Again.

 

[KBK]

There are major differences in paint products. Then again, you can make a real screen instead.



The illusion here, on this forum, is that any old paint will do, when in fact, all paints at any low price, ie, less than $100 a gallon, are mostly filler material. And the filler material is substandard as the product, like all.. is desgned to make the manufacturer some cash. Therefore, cheap is the order of the day..and keeping that lack of quality off your viewscreen is the way to go. When you attempt to throw an image at it, then you get the results..but due to inexperience with what real screens look like, most people think it is great, when the image could be sooooo much better..


This sort of 'standard' product gives the same dead, flat looking image that the raw balckout cloth will ---when in direct comaprison to real optical grade coating products.

 

[grollins]

Thanks Ken,


I guess I will try this screen for now and possibly upgrade to a "real screen" later. I know the Stewart screens take several weeks to obtain anyway. Our theater room is almost complete and I'm sure the blackout screen will do for a month or two.

 

[ziggyr]

Gesso is far from ''a standard product'' and will DEFINATELY look a lot better than raw blackout cloth as testified by forum members who have seen the transformation.

 

[grollins]

Thanks Ziggy, I painted the screen with White Gesso today. I used 2 coats and the finish looks pretty good. I won't be able to try it out for another week or so. I can't wait. Thanks for the info.

 

[WTS]

Hi KBK;

You seem to give alot of advice about what not to use, but never any advice of what to use. If you fancy yourself as an paint expert of sorts, then please spread some of your know how about what people should be using for paint. Telling people not to buy paint cheaper than $100/gal doesn't provide alot of info on what to buy. Lets have some brand names and colour numbers of what you would use regardless of price from best down to acceptable.

Thanks

 

[Jesse S]

KBK = Screen Goo creator


So don't expect much advice from Ken on what to use other than buying Goo. I've seen a Goo screen and it was better than the 2 Stewart screens I've seen that cost $2000+ each. But Goo is too expensive for me at the moment (about $300 for primer and top coat).

 

[grollins]

This is probably a stupid question, but here goes. Why couldn't I just use a flat white spray-paint. Like Kryon or something like that. It seems like if rolling the paint was my only option, I would definatly get a better finish if the paint was sprayed on. Would a couple cans of spray paint do the trick?

 

[ziggyr]

grollins, yes, you could use flat white paint either in pressure can form or home spray gun outfit. The point however, is that GESSO has a high concentration of TITANIUM DIOXIDE (white pigment) compared to your average run of the mill '' house flat white''. Aditionally, some GESSO's such as LIQUITEX brand also include some MICA (pearlescent powder) to enhance the reflective qualities of the gesso.

In regards to blackout fabric, if you are using the type that has a ''furry'' or suede type feel to it, you will find that it looks white but in a projection application it actually ABSORBS light when it should be REFLECTING it. This is why paint on top of the blackout works so much better - it stops the absorption and increase the reflectivity. The gesso is usually more reflective than standard white paint and actually has a gain of around 1.1.

I remember painting my wall with flat white many years ago and finally decided to give GESSO a try. The difference was instantly noticeable - a cost effective improvement! When you paint blackout cloth, the difference is even greater. Good luck!

 

[grollins]

Thanks for the info Ziggy. I just found out that Krylon makes a spray Gesso paint. I don't have access to a real paint sprayer so this may be a good option. I have already painted my screen with Gesso using a roller. It seems to have a texture now. I think maybe I will sand it some and use the spray Gesso for a final coat.


Thanks

 

[ziggyr]

Yep, let us know how the GESSO ''spray version'' works out.

 

[KBK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse S KBK = Screen Goo creator So don't expect much advice from Ken on what to use other than buying Goo. I've seen a Goo screen and it was better than the 2 Stewart screens I've seen that cost $2000+ each. But Goo is too expensive for me at the moment (about $300 for primer and top coat).

That's $300 CDN..must be a big screen. The product is about $137US delivered, for American customers, who want an average screen in the 35-40 sq ft area. In Canada, it comes out to about $215 CDN. We absorb the taxes as a service to our fellow Canadians. (we still have to pay the taxes)


Also, we went considerably beyond something as simple as gesso..a VERY long time ago. We began the enterprise..well beyond that simple point. In fact, Gesso is not even considered to be a screen..as good as Gesso is. Gesso is considered to be quite dull and dead looking.


There are different qualities of Gesso. For our CRT screen mixtures, the best Gesso that money can buy is what we use as a basecoat mixture. Our own formulation, made by us. Same as the Rest. And no, you can't mix up anything near the quality of our products in your kitchen sink. Not a bloody chance.


I find it incredibly hard to believe that Liquitex would use mica in their Gesso, as it would be detrimental for the Gesso when it is used for it's intended purpose.

 

[Jesse S]

There's no visible mica in the Liquitex white gesso I have.


Ken-


Did you recently cut the price on the CRT basecoat? It's only $20 for

1 litre now, I'm sure it was higher before. The tax included thing is definitely a plus and I don't think most of us were aware of it.


Is there just 1 type of CRT topcoat now? The descriptions for the various sizes are all different, one says there is a low and high gain version, another says it just comes in the 1.4-2.2 gain product.

 

[ziggyr]

Well, I used a GESSO made here in Australia that DEFINATELY had MICA as an ingredient as labelled on the side of the can, and confirmed by the manufacturer. '' DETRIMENTAL?''.......in what way?. As a screen paint, it completely blew away the best flat white house paint as well as 3 other brands of gesso, one of which was nearly twice the price of the one that I ended up using.

Sorry Ken, you can't convince me that GESSO with MICA is detrimental to it's performance, especially as a screen paint which is what we are using it for.

When I asked the manufacturer of the purpose of the added MICA, the answer was ''to add some brightness / reflectivity''. Enough said.

 

[KBK]

Mica is translucent and reflective. It is non-color uniform in it's spectra concerning this matter. Gesso is designed to be a basecoat material for painting, or making art. all colors under the sun are used with Gesso as the backdrop. Some paints -oil and acrylic- are transparent by design. No paint or coating is truly opaque. All exhibit transmission of light, including Gesso.


A simple recipe for a 100% chance of uneven color balance, which Gesso is emphatically NOT allowed to have or show.


The resultant effect when using mica in gesso , intended for making art canvases.... is to emphasize differing colors over others, and color-shifting will be evident. dull in some spectra, shifted in others, etc. No artist worth their salt would ever touch it.


Only an idiot would design Gesso with mica in it..or they where trying to save money over the use of sintered titanium source costing..which is the finest ingredient that can be used. I only know of one basecoat that uses this most expensive ingredient exclusively, for the best reflectivity and best color balance within in that reflectivity. Ie, a "no Compromise" basecoat of the highest order. Zero filler, with the reflectivity of a mirror, with better color balance than that mirror.


So, this product may have mica in it, but that's not necessarily a good thing.


So, I'm not trying to get on you about this subject, but.. it ain't a proper Gesso, if it does indeed exist.

 

[ziggyr]

O.k Ken, we will forget our crappy GESSO made by idiots providing you can supply full detais to forum members of the ''NO COMPROMISE BASECOAT OF THE HIGHEST ORDER....ZERO FILLER WITH THE REFLECTIVITY OF A MIRROR''. Just the company name , address, phone number, product number will suffice.

 

[Jesse S]

Getting heated here


I must say that Eric Chong's Screen Goo screen is the best screen I've seen. I've seen 2 stewart screens, both of which cost more than $2000 canadian and Eric's *blows* them away. The illusion of depth is just plain eerie and the Stewart screens just don't give that effect. Eric's screen is not even perfectly applied as he sprayed the Goo on his canvas and then stretched it on a frame, resulting in some noticeable vertical waves.


Cost ignored Screen Goo totally blows away Stewart (I have to assume Da-lite, Draper, etc would only fare worse).


White gesso alone is a very good screen. I will definitely be trying Screen Goo in the future however.