[Ron67]

I'm replacing everything in my system which is 80% HT and only 20% or less music. I like the Pioneer VSX-45TX but I keep looking at the 47TX with the THX decoding. The 47TX would also give me a little more power to push whichever speakers I end up with (suggestions welcome there too). Right now I'm only using a 5.1 setup but with more movies coming out in THX, is the 47 worth the extras $$$???


Also - what are people's opinions on their respective remotes? Neither local dealer was able to furnish one for me to look at


Lastly - any authorized dealer recommendations? My only choices in Phoenix are Ultimate or Showcase - both of whom ask full MSRP and don't seem very interested in selling Pioneer let alone dropping the price...


Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[fabulousfrankie]

Hey Ron,


It's seems your under the common impression that THX is a format such as DD or DTS. Here 's a short explanation of the THX thing.


I personally don't think the 47TX is worth the extra money. A much better option would be to use the 45TX as a pre/pro, add a seperate amplifier. I think this would result in much more sonic benefit.


Something like Outlaw's 7100(100Wx7) for $899 seems like a very attractive option. There's plenty other companies to look into as well, Parasound and Rotel are a few that come to mind. Also keep in mind that you could get a 5 channel amp and use the 45TX to power the ES/EX channels.

 

[Till]

Ron,


Frankie is quite right I think. I don't think THX will give you a significant increase in sound, neither will the additional amp power of the 47. You'd probably have to upgrade to a 49TXi or tx to make it better.


What kind of speakers do you have for surrounds? If you don't have full-range speakers or electrostatic ones and listen at indecently high volumes the 45 can handle all the surrounds. You don't even need a 5-channel amp although the Outlaw recommendation is surely good. You can put all your money in a three channel amp of really good quality. You shall see the bigger improvement there. You can even consider used since solid stage amps don't suffer too much over the years.


If I calculate correctly the price difference of selling the old one and buying a new 47 at MSRP is at least $1000. No? Depending whether you already have really good speakers you might want to reflect whether a better center speaker which gets the most to do in HT might be the place where your investment pays off best. For a thousand dollars you get one hell of a center and the 45 with Eq. can help you match it to your fronts.


Have fun upgrading! Oh, absoluteaudiovideo.com is not authorized but have been very genereously honoring the original warranty when I had a problem. They even paid for shipping which Pio doesn't.


Till

 

[Ron67]

Frankie -


Thank's for that thread! That clears up a lot of confusion on my end re THX and a bunch of other things like bi-wiring etc!!! After reading that I agree with you and Till that, if anything, the 45TX would be my better option and allow me to put the $ somewhere else in my system.


Till -


Right now I have some old (1988) Boston Acoustics T830 Towers with a somewhat newer center - their Lynnfield series VR12. They all sound pretty darn good considering I'm using a very very basic Sony AV Receiver I bought from BB years ago. STR-DA865 - has only Dolby Pro Logic, no DTS or DPL II and marginal speaker connections (the old pinch tab type).


Obviously my glaring weakness is my receiver. I like the Pioneer from the cost standpoint. I think you get a lot for your $: The auto calibration feature, equilizer, bass management seems to have more options, all the latest bells and whistles (not sure if I'd use them all though). I may be buying into their hype a little here.


I've also been looking at Rotel's 1055 & 1065 which are priced similarly to the 45TX and 47TX. I have also looked at the Marantz SR7300 & SR8200 plus a few Denons (3803 I think?) As you can see I've been pretty busy - I just wish Phoenix had more to offer as far as mid to high end audio & HT shops are concerned. Tough to compare when the 2 or 3 shops only carry 1 or 2 brands...


I should also mention that I am definitely adding an SVS Sub - probably 20-39 PC+ and a pair of surrounds. I've heard the B&W surrounds CCM65 and CCM80's and really liked them, but I'm totally open to suggestions.


I'm also thinking about replacing my Bostons but not having much luck there. So far I've looked at the Paradigm Monitor series, JM Labs Cobalt 816's, B&W 604's and some Def Tech stuff. The JM's really stood out but needed a little help on the low end. I think the definitive decision will come after I upgrade the amp and see what the Bostons sound like with a better source. I wish I could drag them along to a shop and really compare them side by side!

 

[Sorny]

Ultimate Electronics will deal. You just have to be prepared to walk out if you haven't bought from them in the past. I got an Elite DV-45A from them for $400 the day they got them in stock; thats a 20% discount from what they had as their price at the time. Then again, I've spend a couple grand there in the last year...


Sorny

 

[petiteface]

Ron67:


Finally I have come across someone who has the same speakers that I do. I too have a Boston Acoustics T-830 pair and I recently upgraded my receiver from a Sony STR-DE 835 (bought from Costco) to the Pioneer 45TX. In my opinion, this was the best upgrade I could make. I tried the Outlaw 950+7100 combo and the Rotel 1055 before I decided on the 45 TX.


I auditioned the Rotel 1055 with just one song, but found it rather lacking in bass. The bostons really sing with the 45tx. My advice to you is take your speakers to the dealership and the CDs you'd like to listen to and then decide.


I was also thinking about upgrading speakers, but so far I havent found anything that appeared to be significantly better than my bostons. How well does the VR12 match your T-830s?

 

[GOLDEN-EAGLE]

petiteface:


Overall what do you think about the musical preformance about the vsx-45tx? Im planning on getting one, its on my audition list along with NAD and Denon.



Thanks GOLDEN-EAGLE!

 

[petiteface]

Unfortunately my personal experience is limited only to the 45TX, Rotel 1055 and the Outlaw 950+7100 combo. Of these I liked the 45TX the best in terms of sound clarity and punchiness. I really like it both for music as well as HT.


I am not sure what musicality means, but most people in this forum appear to refer that to warmer sounding (rolled off highs) equipment and I think NAD, HK, Marantz and Rotel appear to be categorized on this forum in that category.


I would certainly urge you to audition the 45TX in addition to the ones you have in mind before you make a choice.

 

[yojimbo75]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron67 I'm replacing everything in my system which is 80% HT and only 20% or less music. I like the Pioneer VSX-45TX but I keep looking at the 47TX with the THX decoding. The 47TX would also give me a little more power to push whichever speakers I end up with (suggestions welcome there too). Right now I'm only using a 5.1 setup but with more movies coming out in THX, is the 47 worth the extras $$$??? Also - what are people's opinions on their respective remotes? Neither local dealer was able to furnish one for me to look at Lastly - any authorized dealer recommendations? My only choices in Phoenix are Ultimate or Showcase - both of whom ask full MSRP and don't seem very interested in selling Pioneer let alone dropping the price... Thanks in advance for any help!

First of all, THX Ultra2 does have post-processing functions that apply to both Dolby Digital and DTS. Certainly, these functions are desirable at the same pricing point; the real question is: are they worth a higher cost. There is also some debate as to whether or not they make much difference in sound quality. Still, to make it out to be as if THX is simply a seal of approval is not accurate.



As for the advantages of the 47 over the 45...well it has many. The question is do its advantages make it worth the cost of upgrading. In many instances, such as mine, it was well worth the extra cost over the 45. The simple criteria will always be: does the higher-end model have advantages that are worth the money in my set-up? There have been previous threads on this specific matter and the general consensus is, that in most cases, the advantages are not worth the money to the majority of buyers. However, there are exceptions. Here is a list of the 47's advantages over the 45 from a previous thread(posted by another AVS member):



Differences between 47TX & 45TX:


1. 130 wpc vs. 100 wpc

2. THX Ultra 2 certification vs. THX Select

3. Input impedance of 382 mV vs. 335 mV

4. Signal to noise Ratio of 105/93 db vs. 101/83 db

5. 47TX has a Chimney Heat Sink, the 45TX doesn't

6. 47TX uses a Sharc & Motorola for processing--45TX uses 2 Motorolas

7. 47TX has 6 digital inputs--45TX has 5

8. 47TX has 6 A/V inputs vs. 5 for the 45TX

9. 47TX has 1 composite & 2 S-video monitor outs--45TX has one of each

10.47TX has 3 component ins--45TX has 2

11.47TX has 2 sub outs--45TX has one

12.47TX has all gold plated terminals

13.47TX has a more heavy-duty power cord

14.47TX uses Burr brown PCM 1738 DACs vs. AKM AK 4383 for the 45TX

15.The 45TX does have a 12V trigger and USB input(not deal breakers, IMO)that the 47TX doesn't

(16.)The 47TX has a built in RF Demodulator; the 45TX does not.



Here was what I stated in the thread as to my reason for buying a 47:


For my set-up, I think that the 47TX makes more sense. First, it can be found on-line for about $800 more. From this difference, I would have to deduct about $200 for a good external RF demodulator(for laserdisc AC-3 surround) if I go with the 45TX since it does not have one(my previous receivers have all had this function internally). My Hitachi RPTV only has 2 Component inputs; the 45TX can switch 2 in to 1 out(which would give me a total of 3), while the 47TX has 3 in to 1 out(giving me a total of four). This saves me from an expensive switching device if I need 4 component devices(DVD, HDTV STB, X-Box, and D-VHS). I believe that these switches are generally fairly expensive(approx. $200.00). This would bring the difference between the two units down to, perhaps, less than $400.


At that price, I believe that the 47TX is easily justified as an upgrade, due to its superior amplifier power, DACs, build-quality, and processing power. It also has a few more inputs. Of course, Not everyone will need the extra component connection, and very few will need the RF Demodulator. Still, in cases like mine, the cost of adding these externally eats into the 45's savings and makes the 47TX upgrade an easy decision.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


I do not pretend that the 47 is a recommended upgrade, but depending on your set-up, it can offer tremendous value. As for the recommendation that you should look into buying the 45 as a pre/pro, you would get nice sound, but remember that the processing of the 45 is not top-notch(it is very good....the 47 is better...the 49 is Pioneer's best). Whether or not you could get a nice amp for the savings is not automatic. I noticed that you are looking to purchase the unit from an authorized dealer, thus paying near full retail, the price difference is substantial and an amp could probably be had. However, if you were to buy online, the price difference is much less substantial( approx. $800.00) and a good amp is less easily had.

Anyway, the bottom line is that it depends upon your set-up. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Ron67]

Petiteface -


That's too funny that you have the same speakers! Most people have never seen their old towers. The center matches pretty darn well. That may change when I upgrade my receiver. Right now the sound from all 3 is good enough that it makes it tough to justify replacing them. That doesn't stop me from drooling over the Axiom M80Ti's or M60Ti's. Those might add a little more bottom end in 2-channel mode when listening to music and maybe a little fuller sound for HT.


I was also looking at the Rotel 1055. It's a beautiful piece but I just don't get that "I gotta have this" warm fuzzy feeling I get with the Pioneer. Not sure why - maybe it was the Bass?


Yojimbo57 -


That's an excellent point. Only downside on my end is that I'm only running DVD and Satellite so 2 component video inputs vs 3 or more isn't as significant. The rest of the differences are pretty solid though. Wattage being the biggie along with upgraded processors etc. How's the video quality after it passes through the unit? I always wondered if it ever degraded it a little? I imagine some units will while other brands don't etc.


Lastly -


Does anyone know if either the 45TX or 47TX will drive 4 ohm speakers? The Axiom M80Ti's are 4 ohm and IF I mess with their center I believe that one is 6 ohms...


Keep the replies coming - I love this forum!!!

 

[yojimbo75]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron67 Yojimbo57 - That's an excellent point. Only downside on my end is that I'm only running DVD and Satellite so 2 component video inputs vs 3 or more isn't as significant. The rest of the differences are pretty solid though. Wattage being the biggie along with upgraded processors etc. How's the video quality after it passes through the unit? I always wondered if it ever degraded it a little? I imagine some units will while other brands don't etc. Lastly - Does anyone know if either the 45TX or 47TX will drive 4 ohm speakers? The Axiom M80Ti's are 4 ohm and IF I mess with their center I believe that one is 6 ohms... Keep the replies coming - I love this forum!!! [/b]

Ron- I definitely understand about the component inputs. Another thing to think about is that the build quality is so darn impressive in the 47(not that it is poor in the 45). The 47TX is beautifully walled off inside and shielded. It also weighs over 20LBS!!! heavier. It is truly an impressive receiver.

As for the loss of video signal, if it exists, it is not perceivable. This is one of the key points in the THX certification. The receiver must be able to switch video at full resolution with no perceivable loss in quality. You will not be disappointed in that way with either the 45 or the 47.


Also, the 47 will drive 4 ohm speakers. It has not been plagued by the same problem as the 45 in this regard. This is probably due to its greater power.

 

[MikeRP]

Ron:


The 45TX is not rated for 4 ohms. Saying this: since Pioneer has fixed the shutdown problem - WanMan has driven 4 ohm speakers in a 7.1 setup with his 45 and it presented no problems. E-mail him for the details.


yojimbo75 brought up alot of good points. If I had the cash, I would buy the 47 or even 49 too.


But, the 45 really sounds great and if your looking for a pre-pro prior to entering into seperates. The the 45 may be the way to go.


Its really a tough decision. As for me, if I had the cash I'd go with the 47.


Its a beautiful unit.


Mike

 

[yojimbo75]

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeRP Ron: The 45TX is not rated for 4 ohms. Saying this: since Pioneer has fixed the shutdown problem - WanMan has driven 4 ohm speakers in a 7.1 setup with his 45 and it presented no problems. E-mail him for the details. yojimbo75 brought up alot of good points. If I had the cash, I would buy the 47 or even 49 too. But, the 45 really sounds great and if your looking for a pre-pro prior to entering into seperates. The the 45 may be the way to go. Its really a tough decision. As for me, if I had the cash I'd go with the 47. Its a beautiful unit. Mike

Mike- I am glad to hear that Pioneer got the shut-down problem fixed and that the 45 can drive 4-ohms into a 7.1 set-up. That is fantastic.


As a side note, I looked into the 49TXI, but this is the stage where I had trouble justifying the upgrade. I simply could not justify this upgrade even at online prices(I think it runs about $900 more online). Of course, if I had an extra grand laying around, I might have bought it for those extra features, but they were simply not important enough for me to even consider the price.


I will say that any of these receivers are fine pieces of equipment and look beautiful. I can honestly say that I have not regretted, even for one moment, my purchase of the 47 ...I love it.

 

[SurferLeo]

yojimbo75,


Excellent post -- thank you for "surfacing" the details.


I debated the 45TX verses the 47TX for awhile, and then purchased the 45TX. Not long after, I returned it and picked up a 47TX.


As yojimbo75 stated, the 47TX has many benefits over the 45TX -- personally, I felt I was missing out with the 45TX and decided the extra $$$ was worth the difference. This was primarily based on build quality, power, component inputs, THX Ultra 2 certification and more...


In a nutshell, the 47TX is more scalable for the multiples of variances and adjustments my system will receive over the next ten years. I felt pigeon-holed with the 45TX (primarily because it's not THX certified for a larger theater, has two component ins, and "only" 100W of power). With the 47TX, I feel like this can really move with me and remain flexible.

 

[CanO]

great posts guys. you've answered many key questions for me (45 and 47 are on my short list).


One more (hopefully not off topic). Based on reading in the projector forums, I get the impression most of us try to avoid s video and use DVI when possible. Has anyone compared their switched s video via the 47 to the direct dvi connection?


Thanks

 

[yojimbo75]

Quote:

Originally posted by SurferLeo yojimbo75, I debated the 45TX verses the 47TX for awhile, and then purchased the 45TX. Not long after, I returned it and picked up a 47TX.

SurferLeo- I definitely know where you are coming from. The extra flexibility is really helpful, because often you do not when you will need an extra digital connection, or an extra component hook-up. It is nice to know that it is there. In addition, as you stated, Ultra 2 certification with the higher power needed to obtain it are nice. Perhaps, you may decide to utilize a different room later and the extra power may come in handy. Perhaps these are not issues that everyone is concerned with, but if a receiver is a long-term investment(more than just a year or two), flexability does become important. I am glad you are enjoying your 47...I could not agree more with your description of it.

Quote:

One more (hopefully not off topic). Based on reading in the projector forums, I get the impression most of us try to avoid s video and use DVI when possible. Has anyone compared their switched s video via the 47 to the direct dvi connection?

canO- If you are talking about DVI directly out of a digital source such as HDTV set-top box or a DVD player equipped with DVI, it will be hard for S-video to compete. The advantage of the DVI connection is that it leaves the info in the digital domain from the feed through the output and DVI cable to wherever it is going. Depending on the ending destination, it could then be converted to analog or displayed digitally. This would depend on the display. A better test would be to compare a switched component feed to the DVI. Most reports that I have heard is that in a direct connection(player to display), little difference is seen. The way a digital connection can shine is when it is sent out through a chain of products(Digital source through DVI to processor then out digitally to display). This would save numerous ADC and DAC. In addition to this, digital signals are less corrupted by cable runs and interference. To get more specific, one would have to discuss your particular set-up. Still, in general, I would take DVI over S-Video any day. Regardless, either the 45 or 47 would equally switch multiple S-Video ins into a single S-video out. I hope that this is of some help.

 

[petiteface]

Hmm... I always thought THX Select and THX Ultra2 had to do more with amplification rather than processing. IN fact I read an article that because of this one will never find a THX Select certified pre-map (since it would be the same as a THX-Ultra2 certified pre-amp).


I always felt that a 45TX+an external amp would be a better option than a 47TX especially given that the 45 TX has the following advantages.


1. External microphone for MCACC, I believe 47TX has an integrated one into the remote.

2. USB input.

3. More recent model!


I do agree that the 47TX build quality is significantly higher (20lbs should matter!!).

 

[MikeRP]

SurferLeo:


Do you feel you had the 45 long enough to compare sound quality?


I find the sound on the 45 to be superb and I'm wondering really how much difference there is IF you had a THX Select Room Size they were both in. What size is your room and did you find a sound difference?


Incidently, I bought an Adcom 545 to attach to my 45. I really can tell no difference in sound between the two.


I am having trouble with a "pop" on switching inputs that I don't know if it is caused by a ground loop of the 45 not pre-outing the signal right of the Adcom amp.


The amp does I feel give me extra headroom to drive the system. This may realy be subjective but its FUN anyway. With the 47, I sure wouldn't have needed an additional amp.


Mike


Paradigm Studio 40s FL. FR

Paradigm Studio CC

Paradigm Studio ADPs Rear

Def Tech Pro 100 sub

Pioneer 45TX

Adcom 545

Toshiba 57HDX82

Toshiba SD-2200 DVD

 

[SurferLeo]

Honestly...


I never listened to the 45TX. In fact, I didn't even open the box.


For whatever reason, when I researched receivers, I never "looked" beyond my budget. After purchasing the 45TX, however, I began noticing what Pioneer had done with the 47TX and realized how well this receiver would address forward-looking scalability issues.


Suddenly, without even opening the 45TX, I felt like I was settling for less and quickly upgraded to the 47TX.

 

[mlouie]

MikeRP,


I too am experiencing a pop (more like a thump) when switching imputs on my 45tx. It is nothing majorly disturbing, but it is noticeable. I am not running an external amp, outside of the sub. Have no clue what it is.


Mike