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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Personally I like to record sporting events and have them archived. I like to record them at the best possible quality.


Currently I use my Digital8 camera to record sporting events -- I put it on SP mode and typically fit one game on 2 tapes. The quality comes out VERY GOOD. About the same of my DVD recordings on HQ mode.


However as I look into the future I know some day (maybe in a year or so) I will want to purchase an HDTV and HD cable etc. However I am not sure if I should purchase a HD-PVR or a D-VHS.


I know some of you may ask - -why does that matter now?


However. Right now (or by 2004) I want to be able to record my sporting events without actually BEING there and changing tapes. Basically I want to fit 1 or 2 games onto ONE TAPE and have it be extremely high quality (close to original cable broadcast and almost 100% of the source in quality).


Obviously I might get pickier when I get HD cable in terms of the speeds of recordings -- but for now couldn't I use a D-VHS Recorder to record programs without being there and have them be just as good (if not better) quality than my D8 tapes (which I need two of to record games a excellent quality)?


So wouldn't it be best if I buy a D-VHS recorder that way I prepare myself for the future in that I record NOW GREAT QUALITY GAMES on one tape without being there-- and in the future I can use the D-VHS recorder when I upgrade to HD cable. Then I will get the best of both worlds.


So could someone tell me the modes and just how well D-VHS tapes can capture normal cable (SD) broadcast now?


For those of you saying how expensive this might be or whatever -- just now my preference is to archive games THE BEST quality I can within reason while not having to be there to record one game on several tapes etc.....


Basically I want to be able to archive my SD copies in the near future on D8 tapes in case. I like the firewire interface IN and OUT in a recorder like D-VHS and I would use it with my Digital8 camera for several recordings that I wanted to backup (heck I probably wouldnt need to back most of them up because D-VHS doesnt scratch like DVD's would).


Plus as far as convenicnce goes I dont really care about D-VHS not having menus for my games yet because I want to able to FIRST RECORD the games over the next few years before I think about editing video or whatever. Basically for my sporting events I just want to record a few hours of high quality video and each game on ONE TAPE with great quality.


So is D-VHS the way for me to go? Or are HD-PVR's just as good if not better -- based on my tastes listed above?
 

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I'll just say this mighet be in the wrong area, but....


If you are looking DVHS or HD-PVR, I'd go HD-PVR. A PVR is a PVR and DVHS is tape. It's like asking should I get a VCR or PVR? Ask yourself that qestion and I think you'll have your answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The point is I want to archive my 2-3 hour videos and have them the best quality possible. I dont want to just leave them on the PVR which can't record many hours of High Quality anyway from what people have been telling me.


And I dont want to use my computer to archive anything. So where could I backup my programs on my PVR?
 

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It doesn't seem you are open to suggestions. People here have given you a variety of ways to do what you want. Continuing to harp that you only want to do it your way doesn't really help you and will only result in not having anyone help you.


Your claim that the PVR can't record many hours of High Quality is false. You can get a 5508 which will allow you to record over 26 hours at high quality. Or you can get a 5516 which will allow you to record over 54 hours at high quality. Even a 5504 will give you about 15 hours at high quality. All for under $1000.
 

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PVR with DVD burner... that's what you need.


Just saw the first one in a Sound & Vision it was in an ad and by Pioneer. Too bad it uses tivo... I can only speculate that with blue-ray and such that a HD PVR/DVD Combo is only a few years off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
JOE I dont understand what you mean Im not open to suggestions.


Right now I have at most 500-600 dollars to spend on something I can use to RECORD HIGH QUALITY videos. Sports look like absolute CRAP at DVD recording at SP mode they only look good on HQ DVD mode (which require 2 or more disks to record ONE GAME).


The point is I want to fit 2-3 games on ONE tape or PVR (to later be archived the tape anyway) so I don't have to physically BE THERE when recording the game.


Since many people say cheap or mid priced PVRS only record 15 hours+ of HIGH QUALITY (not SP or any other mode the HIGHEST quality normal priced PVRS have).


The whole point is so I DONT HAVE to archive my games on DVD on MULTIPLE DISKS for ONE GAME (plus DVD isnt great to archive with anyway considering there can always be scratches).


Basically D-VHS might be the best choice for me considering I want to be able to record without being there and I want the games ARCHIVED -- I dont want to have to worry about my PVR filling up after 3-4 recorded games.


Plus I dont have money to get HDTV anyway for a year or so......


Now the reason I asked this question in this forum is because I wanted to know if the highest quality on $500 or less PVRs yield a recording that is just as good as my Digital8 recordings @ SP MODE (1hour per hape).


Thats all I really want to know right now. But since people can't answer that question clearly within my preferences I ask QUESTIONS again or I seem UNWILLING to accept what others say.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nikos20
Now the reason I asked this question in this forum is because I wanted to know if the highest quality on $500 or less PVRs yield a recording that is just as good as my Digital8 recordings @ SP MODE (1hour per hape).


Thats all I really want to know right now. But since people can't answer that question clearly within my preferences I ask QUESTIONS again or I seem UNWILLING to accept what others say.
I believe you have now asked this question four times in two different threads. In case you don't remember... my original response to your original thread:


"Unfortunately no PVR is going to come close to preserving the quality of the DV stream captured by your camera, the data rate is just way too high (3.8MB/s). So *you* will have to evaluate the quality of the PVR"


The mpeg compressed format PVR's store their video in is a lossy format that imposes noticeable degradation when compared to DV stream recording. So again... *you* will need to evaluate that degradation to determine if you can live with it.


Of course you can start another thread and ask this question again, but the answer is still the same :D
 

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Nikos,


Here's my two cents. A cheap to mid-price (read: small hard drive) PVR should not be thought of as an archival storage device. PVRs are for time-shifting. If you want to record multiple ~3-hour sporting events at highest quality, you're going to have to start dumping them to tape, DVD, or auxillary hard drives at some point.


With an entry-level Replay TV, 5040, you get a 40 GB HD. (I believe this would definitely fall in your price range.) I figure a 3-hour sporting event will probably take up about 9 GB at highest quality. So you can safely fit 4 sporting events onto the hard drive before you will need to start archiving.


If you're willing to break open the factory seal and spend an additional couple hundred $ or so on hard drives, I figure you could put in two 250 GB HDs into the box, giving you 500 GB capacity. This would let you record ~55 3-hour sporting events before you would need to start archiving.


Does that help? (Feel free to check my figures... I'm not making any guarantees.)


-Robbie
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
S.bradford I am hearing different things from different threads.


Some people have told me that the PVR on highest quality is basically as good as how I would record on D8 Camera SD television with my analog passthru. Obviously with my D8 Camera I record normal SD cable--via analog passthru not DIGITAL. So in a sense it must be compressed in the analog passthru/mode etc...


If one D-VHS can hold as much SD cable programs as an entire PVR - -wouldnt it make sense for me to get D-VHS (cause using a PVR I would just archive them to my D8 tapes ANYWAY)?
 

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Nikos, my point was that you have asked essentially the same question in multiple threads. If you have contining questions, ask them in the same thread.


Now you state that you have $500 - $600 to spend. Conveniently the 5504 is $500, which will allow you almost 15 hours of recordings. The 5508 is $600, and will allow you almost 30 hours of recording. Both at high quality. I'm not entirely sure you need high quality, since you don't talk about your display setup. Archiving to tape is fine, but if you are watching on a 27" TV or smaller after archiving, in my opinion you won't notice the difference and you'll be able to double your recording time.


AFAIK, a D-VHS tape will only record a max of 6 hours at good quality. So using the smaller 5504 replay wouldn't seem worth it if you are again going to archive on tape. But the 5508 for $600 would seem to fit perfectly what you want to do, allowing you to put off the archiving process for a longer period of time.
 

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Buy a 5040 for $150. Buy 2 200GB drives for $300. Pay someone $50 to install both drives in your 5040.


~160 hours record time at high for $500 & $12.95/month.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nikos20



If one D-VHS can hold as much SD cable programs as an entire PVR - -wouldnt it make sense for me to get D-VHS (cause using a PVR I would just archive them to my D8 tapes ANYWAY)?
Umm, I suppose so, maybe--IF your supposition were true. But clearly it's not. And PVR's have lots of nifty features!


-Robbie
 

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I watch a lot of sports and the biggest issue is the strength & quality of the signal you have coming in. Most sports look fine on my 32" TV at either medium or high if I have a good signal coming in. On some of the Fox regionals a crappy, fuzzy picture is only made worse by the Replay.


Most likely if you are THIS picky about your PQ you are not going to be happy with any standalone PVR on the market. If all you really care about is PQ and not useability you might want to look at a DirecTivo or a DishNetwork PVR.
 

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With the exception of FOX, I'd record A LOT of sports, football, hockey and baseball all on my PVRs, even at Medium quality.


Now, the quality isn't perfect, but I blame directv for most of the compression problems I have. I've worked with mpeg for about 8 years and I really know what I'm seeing. I can look past the problems a PVR has.


If you aren't thinking about HDTV, then where's the question? A PVR will give you a picture WAY better than VHS, betamax or LaserDisc quality. DVD quality is generally BETTER for movies because they spend a lot of time working on the encoding of the movie.


A PVR has one pass and odes a very good job with the source it has to work with.


I've got 2 HDTV recivers, 6 replayTV, a 56" and a 58" RPTV, years of working at a low level with mpeg and the ReplayTV does a good enough job for me. Of course my system is tweeked to the hilt, dialed in and the sources are about as clean as the can be. I blame directv for most of the crappy artifacting I see.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nikos20
S.bradford I am hearing different things from different threads.


Some people have told me that the PVR on highest quality is basically as good as how I would record on D8 Camera SD television with my analog passthru. Obviously with my D8 Camera I record normal SD cable--via analog passthru not DIGITAL. So in a sense it must be compressed in the analog passthru/mode etc...


If one D-VHS can hold as much SD cable programs as an entire PVR - -wouldnt it make sense for me to get D-VHS (cause using a PVR I would just archive them to my D8 tapes ANYWAY)?
Well... I don't think anyone meant to say it would be the same, I think they said it was close. Close is a relative term. If your driving from LA to Sacramento, you would say you're close when you hit Modesto (still 50 miles out). But if your driving from LA to San Diego, that same 50 miles means you're not even half way there.


PVR's on medium to high quality are fine for most movies, news and the like... and I find it very watchable for football as well. But, it was decidedly more difficult to follow a tennis ball during the US Open (and following a golf ball across a partly cloudy sky is also dissapointing).


It has alot to do with the kinds of information the mpeg en/decoders are processing. The more pixels that change from frame to frame, the more lossy is the conversion. And of course I'm sure the subjective comparison is also based on what you are viewing it on (in my case a 36" trinitron). I am sure if I was comparing the differences on a 21" RCA it would be less noticeable, just like if I had a plasma or DLP big screen it would be more noticeable.


I'll reiterate that it is up to you to make the qualitative analysis for yourself. Don't ever buy a speaker based on how someone else says it sounds.;)
 
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