[valiente]

Hello avsforum family! Valiente here, a newbie. I've been eyeing on the last plasma TV on a store near our place. I need to buy a TV technology before it fades away. I have seen pretty discounted plasma TVs like Sammy 43F4000. Guys, have you experienced this TV? Seems no one is using this model. I think most members are on the top models. This TV is the lowest model in the sammy plasmas. The resolution of this TV is 852x480. Will this be ok? The numbers are very small. Can I buy the lowest model? Is this worth buying or not? I think I will be the only one who will buy this model. There's no thread even made for this TV. Please share insights.

Thanks a lot. It's nice to be here.

 

[Josh128]

Hello avsforum family! Valiente here, a newbie. I've been eyeing on the last plasma TV on a store near our place. I need to buy a TV technology before it fades away. I have seen pretty discounted plasma TVs like Sammy 43F4000. Guys, have you experienced this TV? Seems no one is using this model. I think most members are on the top models. This TV is the lowest model in the sammy plasmas. The resolution of this TV is 852x480. Will this be ok? The numbers are very small. Can I buy the lowest model? Is this worth buying or not? I think I will be the only one who will buy this model. There's no thread even made for this TV. Please share insights.

Thanks a lot. It's nice to be here.

Where are you located? The 852x480 is an EDTV resolution, but that would make for a fantastic retro-gaming TV. It could be worth some money to certain people. Is it PAL or NTSC and what are they asking for it?

 

[22point8]

That model is sold in Eastern Europe/Africa/Asia (India etc)/Central and South America.

 

[valiente]

Josh128, valiente is from Asia. I look for the meaning of EDTV. Enhanced-definition television, or extended-definition television (EDTV).

Wikipedia says: "EDTV is an American Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) marketing shorthand term for certain digital television (DTV) formats and devices. Specifically, this term defines formats that deliver a picture superior to that of standard-definition television (SDTV) but not as detailed as high-definition television (HDTV).The term refers to devices capable of displaying 480-line or 576-line signals in progressive scan, commonly referred to as 480p (NTSC-HQ) and 576p (PAL) respectively, as opposed to interlaced scanning, commonly referred to as 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL). High-motion is optional for EDTV."

What I understand here is simply Sammy 43F4000 will deliver a picture superior to that of standard-definition television (SDTV) but not as detailed as high-definition television (HDTV).

I think this TV will fit for Digital TV Channels Watching because most of the channels are still in SD. In our area, there are around 20 Digital HD Channels available as of this time.

I'm studying...

 

[valiente]

Source: Plasma TV Buying Guide.com

"There is approximately a 20% improvement in the picture quality when HD content is displayed on high resolution (HDTV) plasma televisions when compared with lower resolution (EDTV) plasma televisions- when viewing two plasmas by the same manufacturer."


"Case In Point: At past Consumer Electronics Shows (2001 and 2002), manufacturers would stage "plasma shoot outs", often pitting earlier-generation HD sets against ED ones. The outcome? A Panasonic 853X480 plasma beat several other manufacturers with higher resolutions (1024X768 or 1024X1024) even with an HD signal displayed. Contrast, video processing, and conversion have much to do with plasma technology."


What I learned? Contrast, video processing, and conversion has much to do with plasma technology than resolution. I think EDTV is still a relevant TV this 2015. I think it's still a worthy TV for money.

 

[Josh128]

What is the price?

 

[valiente]

What is the price?

Josh, the 43F4000 is $400. By the way, sitting beside it is the 43F4900 which is $530. Plus the 51H4900 is $700.

Is the 43F4000 more bang for the money? Or knowing that the situation is no more plasma is being produced, should I opt for the 43F4900? Also, should I go for a bigger screen, the 51?

I think I will enjoy more the EDTV than the HDTV because most of the digital channels in our place are in SD. HD channels are still rare and few.

I'm still confused. I need help. Thanks.

 

[valiente]

Wikipedia says:
"480p was used for many early Plasma televisions. 480p does not qualify as high-definition television (HDTV); it is considered enhanced-definition television (EDTV). 480p standard, 640 x480, ratio 4:3. Wide 480p, 852x480, ratio is 16:9.

By this, the 43F4000 will be the best display for 480p contents which is still in available in most TV channels just in widescreen format.

I'm thinking again...

 

[KOF]

If you get the F4000, you will be essensially getting the best SDTV produced to date, better than any Pioneer/Panasonic pro SD plasmas produced in early 2000s, any Sony Trinitron BVMs (I have one too) because of superior ANSI contrast ratio.

You're correct in assuming an SDTV will be the perfect match for SD broadcasts. (I will not confuse you any further and call it an EDTV because that's just a marketting term, no different from 'Full HD's, but usually 480P only displays were called EDTVs back in the day) It will also excel in DVDs and old console games such as Dreamcast.

You will still want to keep a couple of meters of viewing distance away though because such low DPI will not be pleasant close up. It's an issue I'm having with my 51 inches Samsung F4500 as well. Once that's settled, it will still accept resolutions higher than the panel's native (such as 720p/1080p) and downscale them just like the Samsung F4500/F4900.

As to whether you want to future-proof your final plasma, going with the F4900 will certainly give you that. While both can downscale HD(720p/1080p) resolutions, the F4900 will be far more effective in downscaling than the F4000 because of resolution difference. The F4900 will also give you 3D TV capability if you care about it. I have no idea how widespread HD/UHD will be in Philippines, but the F4900 can also handle SD broadcast pretty well as long as you feed a good external scaler such as DVDO. (I personally found my F4500's scaler's performance for SD upscaling mediocre, worse than the 720p LG plasma I used 5 years ago)

Plasma is your last ticket to high end performance without high end price. OLED will take much more time to be affordable like the F4000/F4900. That's why I also have three plasmas: Panasonic S64, Samsung F5300, Samsung F4500. Unfortunately, my F5300 got cracked so that's why I had to get the F4500 for interim solution. Assuming the F4000 has equal contrast ratio as my F4500a, it will have decent black level and good brightness. I've personally found my F4500 being the second brightest Samsung plasmas released in 2013. (My now broken F5300 was pretty close too.)

 

[Josh128]

Josh, the 43F4000 is $400. By the way, sitting beside it is the 43F4900 which is $530. Plus the 51H4900 is $700.

Is the 43F4000 more bang for the money? Or knowing that the situation is no more plasma is being produced, should I opt for the 43F4900? Also, should I go for a bigger screen, the 51?

I think I will enjoy more the EDTV than the HDTV because most of the digital channels in our place are in SD. HD channels are still rare and few.

I'm still confused. I need help. Thanks.

The F4900, if equal to the F4500 (US, NTSC) is a phenomenal set. I find SD content looks fine on it-- Im using a GefenTV S-Video to HDMI converter for my DirecTV box and it produces a very, very nice picture when dialed in. I find the set extremely versatile and think it looks great with 240p all the way up to 1080p sources. 480i broadcast upscaling may be one of its weaker points, but it looks just as good or better than 480i on its 1080p brother, the F5300.

That said-- the 480p TV may look even better for SD broadcasts, but to be honest Ive never heard of a 480p broadcast, only 480i. For PS2, GC, Xbox 480p and 240p gaming, the set should really shine, but for anything higher it wont match the F4500.

Unless you are buying it exclusively for native 480p content, I'd go with the F4900-- its more future proof and I know from personal experience (PN51F4500AF and BF models), how good it is. Its my personal favorite TV of all time for what I use it for (SD,ED,HD gaming and SD and HD broadcasts).

 

[valiente]

Thanks KOF and Josh128 for your ideas.

These Samsung plasmas are either 2013 or 2014 made. Their the last breed of Samsung. As I'm thinking of either of these Samsung plasmas to buy before it fade away, I found 2012 made Panasonic plasma 720p plasma. The model is "42X50". It is marked $570. And I assume that this plasma is also the last breed plasma from Panasonic. The production of Panasonic plasmas ended 2012.

Now, I am including this Panasonic 2012 model in my choices because I have read that the last breed of Panasonic plasmas have superb picture quality according to some owners. The owners were disappointed a lot when Panasonic closed already leaving Samsung and LG. Another idea is, from these three manufactures of plasma, Panasonic is the leader in terms of quality and consistency.

Also, is there a big difference between a 2012 and 2013 Plasma TV or only subtle differences in qualities like brightness, image retention, reflection, and others? I assume that the difference are minimal.

Which plasma must I put on top of my list? Samsung 43" F4900, $530, 2013 manufactured or Panasonic 42" 42X50, $570, 2012 manufactured-last Panasonic plasma production.

I'm confused. Please help me decide. Thank you.

 

[tylerSC]

I would choose the F4900. In the 720p category, Samsung was generally preferred over Panasonic. In the higher end 1080p models, critics often favored Panasonic. But for local cable and antenna viewing, the Samsungs have a nice menu interface, including providing full program info. And the Samsung models do a good job with both HD and SD sources.

 

[Josh128]

Thanks KOF and Josh128 for your ideas.

These Samsung plasmas are either 2013 or 2014 made. Their the last breed of Samsung. As I'm thinking of either of these Samsung plasmas to buy before it fade away, I found 2012 made Panasonic plasma 720p plasma. The model is "42X50". It is marked $570. And I assume that this plasma is also the last breed plasma from Panasonic. The production of Panasonic plasmas ended 2012.

Now, I am including this Panasonic 2012 model in my choices because I have read that the last breed of Panasonic plasmas have superb picture quality according to some owners. The owners were disappointed a lot when Panasonic closed already leaving Samsung and LG. Another idea is, from these three manufactures of plasma, Panasonic is the leader in terms of quality and consistency.

Also, is there a big difference between a 2012 and 2013 Plasma TV or only subtle differences in qualities like brightness, image retention, reflection, and others? I assume that the difference are minimal.

Which plasma must I put on top of my list? Samsung 43" F4900, $530, 2013 manufactured or Panasonic 42" 42X50, $570, 2012 manufactured-last Panasonic plasma production.

I'm confused. Please help me decide. Thank you.

Stay away from the X Series Panasonics. I had a 2013 TC-P50X60 and it didnt hold a candle to my 2013 Samsung PN51F4500, so I sold the Panasonic and bought a 2014 F4500 to replace it! The Samsung is WAY better in every possible way.

The F4900 is a FAR superior TV compared to any of the X Series Panny's.

 

[KOF]

Agreed. From 2013 Panasonic lineup, it only starts to get great from the S60, the cheapest 1080p model. The 720p models like the X50/X60 were rather regurgitated models so they don't hold a candle to Samsung 720p plasmas which ARE properly updated in performance in line with more expensive models.

In that sense, try to get the 2014 F4900s. Even if you can't, even the 2013 F4900 should have better black level than the 2013 F4500A. I have one right now and its black level performance is closer to my modded LG plasma than the Samsung F5300B I also owned.

A few words of caution though. The Samsung F4500 is the WORST plasma among the plasmas I've owned with regards to IR,dithering, and motion performance. Motion performance still tolerable since it's only little worse than my F5300B, but dithering can be distracting at near viewing distance.

One minor quirk that only applies to me is that PC mode is engaged every time I'm trying to use its native panel resolution, 1024x768. For pristine unmolested detail, I prefer this resolution the most, but can't really use it because color options are limited and Black Optimizer is disabled. It seems critical I use a good external scaler and let it output in 720p. Either way, too bad. The King of Fighters 13 looked good in native panel resolution.

 

[valiente]

Thank you tylerSC, Josh128 and KOF for suggestions . It's a big help for me knowing that I have many options to consider.

Today I had an opportunity to demo a 43F4900 in a store. Best thing is, the plasma is facing the wall not windows. I asked the salesman to play the movie on my flash drive via USB. The first is my favorite TV show Amazing Race. Wow, I can see that the colors are close to the real thing and also close to the colors of my CRT. The blues are blues, the reds are reds, and that is simply out of the display unit, which I think the settings are never calibrated. My eyes were hooked on the TV. I was sitting around 4 to 5 feet from the TV. Then, after 10 minutes, I told the salesman to play a cartoon movie called "Up". Up is one my favorites. Wow again! The colors are simply colors. I'm amazed. Take note of my experience is, 20 years of 21" CRT Color TV, which we still use until now. Plus, my favorite IBM 17" CRT monitor which I connect with TV Tuner. This IBM 17" CRT has the most accurate colors of the TVs I've seen. The blues are blues, the greens are greens. I came into conclusion that the bigger screen of my 17" IBM CRT Monitor is the 43" Samsung F4900. It's as if my CRT monitor was made into giant screen. I was really hooked on the picture.

To make simply an analysis in a different level, for me a LED TV says "Hey, I'm here, watch me now!". Plasma TV says to me, "Hey, I'm here, I'll care for you, I'll make a lullaby to you". Plasma is very motherly and sweet while LED is a communist commander. LED has very imposing colors to my eyes while plasma has very gentle, fulfilling colors to my eyes. These statements are my only ideas. I'm sorry if I bit descriptive with my statements. Since I'm a headphile, may I compare the LED TV to a Grado SR60 Headphone, music is a bit shouting and forward on my ears and the Plasma TV is a Sennheiser HD600 which has a laidback sound, sweet and lullaby.


Let's go back.
Our TV consumers here in our place are not plasma buyers, most of them are LED buyers. Even the salesmen here, most of them suggests LED for the reason that it consumes lesser power and its the most hi-tech and latest. The salesman are not concerned about picture quality. However, there are few salesmen which said to me: "That plasma will give you a CRT picture quality", "That plasma sample movie that you have seen here in our store will be the same quality when you bring that TV in your home." I think what is needed by TV appliance stores is a dedicated TV room where lighting can be emulated from a home a lighting, and where lights can be controlled, bright to dark and vice-versa, more like to an audio room in when buying quality speakers for our home.

Guys, I will go for 43F4900. Thanks for your help.

One more please, should I also opt for 51"?

I will first use the TV in my bedroom. The maximum viewing feet is 10 to 12 feet. I think 43" will be more satisfying for me. I have read from CNET, "Get the biggest screen you can afford." Will this work also for my situation? One more help please. I owe a lot to you guys now. Anyways, I am enjoying a lot on this forum because I am learning, I am a student again. Soon, I'll become a videophile.

 

[22point8]

Thank you tylerSC, Josh128 and KOF for suggestions . It's a big help for me knowing that I have many options to consider.

Today I had an opportunity to demo a 43F4900 in a store. Best thing is, the plasma is facing the wall not windows. I asked the salesman to play the movie on my flash drive via USB. The first is my favorite TV show Amazing Race. Wow, I can see that the colors are close to the real thing and also close to the colors of my CRT. The blues are blues, the reds are reds, and that is simply out of the display unit, which I think the settings are never calibrated. My eyes were hooked on the TV. I was sitting around 4 to 5 feet from the TV. Then, after 10 minutes, I told the salesman to play a cartoon movie called "Up". Up is one my favorites. Wow again! The colors are simply colors. I'm amazed. Take note of my experience is, 20 years of 21" CRT Color TV, which we still use until now. Plus, my favorite IBM 17" CRT monitor which I connect with TV Tuner. This IBM 17" CRT has the most accurate colors of the TVs I've seen. The blues are blues, the greens are greens. I came into conclusion that the bigger screen of my 17" IBM CRT Monitor is the 43" Samsung F4900. It's as if my CRT monitor was made into giant screen. I was really hooked on the picture.

To make simply an analysis in a different level, for me a LED TV says "Hey, I'm here, watch me now!". Plasma TV says to me, "Hey, I'm here, I'll care for you, I'll make a lullaby to you". Plasma is very motherly and sweet while LED is a communist commander. LED has very imposing colors to my eyes while plasma has very gentle, fulfilling colors to my eyes. These statements are my only ideas. I'm sorry if I bit descriptive with my statements. Since I'm a headphile, may I compare the LED TV to a Grado SR60 Headphone, music is a bit shouting and forward on my ears and the Plasma TV is a Sennheiser HD600 which has a laidback sound, sweet and lullaby.


Let's go back.
Our TV consumers here in our place are not plasma buyers, most of them are LED buyers. Even the salesmen here, most of them suggests LED for the reason that it consumes lesser power and its the most hi-tech and latest. The salesman are not concerned about picture quality. However, there are few salesmen which said to me: "That plasma will give you a CRT picture quality", "That plasma sample movie that you have seen here in our store will be the same quality when you bring that TV in your home." I think what is needed by TV appliance stores is a dedicated TV room where lighting can be emulated from a home a lighting, and where lights can be controlled, bright to dark and vice-versa, more like to an audio room in when buying quality speakers for our home.

Guys, I will go for 43F4900. Thanks for your help.

One more please, should I also opt for 51"?

I will first use the TV in my bedroom. The maximum viewing feet is 10 to 12 feet. I think 43" will be more satisfying for me. I have read from CNET, "Get the biggest screen you can afford." Will this work also for my situation? One more help please. I owe a lot to you guys now. Anyways, I am enjoying a lot on this forum because I am learning, I am a student again. Soon, I'll become a videophile.

I sit 10 feet away from my 43F4900 and its the perfect viewing distance. I also agree about its CRTish quality ( I have 2 Sony PVM CRTs with the improved EBU phosphors).

Here are some pictures of my F4900 (calibrated, and the camera doesn't do it justice).

 

[Josh128]

Today I had an opportunity to demo a 43F4900 in a store. Best thing is, the plasma is facing the wall not windows. I asked the salesman to play the movie on my flash drive via USB. The first is my favorite TV show Amazing Race. Wow, I can see that the colors are close to the real thing and also close to the colors of my CRT. The blues are blues, the reds are reds, and that is simply out of the display unit, which I think the settings are never calibrated. My eyes were hooked on the TV. I was sitting around 4 to 5 feet from the TV. Then, after 10 minutes, I told the salesman to play a cartoon movie called "Up". Up is one my favorites. Wow again! The colors are simply colors. I'm amazed. Take note of my experience is, 20 years of 21" CRT Color TV, which we still use until now. Plus, my favorite IBM 17" CRT monitor which I connect with TV Tuner. This IBM 17" CRT has the most accurate colors of the TVs I've seen. The blues are blues, the greens are greens. I came into conclusion that the bigger screen of my 17" IBM CRT Monitor is the 43" Samsung F4900. It's as if my CRT monitor was made into giant screen. I was really hooked on the picture.


There are few salesmen which said to me: "That plasma will give you a CRT picture quality", "That plasma sample movie that you have seen here in our store will be the same quality when you bring that TV in your home." I think what is needed by TV appliance stores is a dedicated TV room where lighting can be emulated from a home a lighting, and where lights can be controlled, bright to dark and vice-versa, more like to an audio room in when buying quality speakers for our home. [/QUOTE]

Guys, I will go for 43F4900. Thanks for your help.

Awesome, right? I've said it time and again here that the F4500/4900 series have the most CRT-like picture Ive seen in an HD flat panel display. As good as it looked in the store, it will look even better in the home environment-- depending on the lighting in the store where you saw it, sometimes MUCH better.

One more please, should I also opt for 51"?

I will first use the TV in my bedroom. The maximum viewing feet is 10 to 12 feet. I think 43" will be more satisfying for me. I have read from CNET, "Get the biggest screen you can afford." Will this work also for my situation? One more help please. I owe a lot to you guys now. Anyways, I am enjoying a lot on this forum because I am learning, I am a student again. Soon, I'll become a videophile.

I have two 51" units and they are spectacular. You do what feels right for you, but for me, I love the size and picture of the 51". It is a magnificent set, even from 5 feet away (my normal gaming distance). I feel its the perfect size for viewing from 10-11 feet away. If you are coming straight from CRTs, like I did-- the 51" will blow you away. Some people are afraid of SDE on the 51", I personally think its blown way out of proportion-- I love the way it looks. If you have the room, and the price is right-- I suggest the 51".

Here are some 3 megapixel photos of my 51F4500s, at the following links:

http://imgur.com/a/aT6lK - Xbox 360
http://imgur.com/a/LLcZ4 - Dreamcast
http://imgur.com/a/0fTWh - vs 51F5300 1080p plasma-- the F4500 is on top and looks smaller because it is about 1.5 feet further back than the F5300.

 

[valiente]

22point8 and Josh128, thank you for your help. I appreciate it a lot. The pictures tells the story.

I was reading about plasma articles in the web. May I quote two statements that catched my attention:

1. "There is something magical about that warm, emissive glow of a plasma TV that you can't quantify with words." -Gizmodo-

2. "Five years ago a stunning 47% of British men said they'd give up sex for six months in exchange for a 50-inch plasma." -Techradar-

I also want to experience that magic from plasma to the point that I may also give up sex for 6 months.

 

[KOF]

Good luck with your purchase, you're going to like it.

Having used my F4500 for a while, I think this one really is a keeper. I think for 240p games, running in 640x480 (with either scanlines or not) in 1024x768 resolution seem to give me the best picture, while for 480p games like Guilty Gear, outputting in 640x640 (160 lines increase in vertical lines) window seem to give me the best compromise in scaling while keeping aspect ratio. While 640x720 is even better in keeping more accurate vertical scaling, characters seem a bit too tall for me.

I truly love the colors in this TV. Even Kega Fusion looks great on this set.

For 240p games, this is now my preferred look of my games

1st : Sony BVM
distant 2nd : Samsung F4500
3rd : Sony FS120
4th : Sony GDM-FW900

For 480p games, a big surprise here.

1st : Samsung F4500
2nd : Sony FW900
2nd (tied) : Sony BVM
4th : Sony FS120

I've long been wanting to get the Sony Wega XBR960 for 480p needs. (like Jet Set Radio Future) Guess I don't need to anymore. BTW, my ranking is assuming running in 640x480 for 240p games and 640x640 (slightly scaled vertically) for 480p games. I don't like the F4500's internal scaler, so I prefer not to use it if I can.

 

[22point8]

Good luck with your purchase, you're going to like it.

Having used my F4500 for a while, I think this one really is a keeper. I think for 240p games, running in 640x480 (with either scanlines or not) in 1024x768 resolution seem to give me the best picture, while for 480p games like Guilty Gear, outputting in 640x640 (160 lines increase in vertical lines) window seem to give me the best compromise in scaling while keeping aspect ratio. While 640x720 is even better in keeping more accurate vertical scaling, characters seem a bit too tall for me.

I truly love the colors in this TV. Even Kega Fusion looks great on this set.

For 240p games, this is now my preferred look of my games

1st : Sony BVM
distant 2nd : Samsung F4500
3rd : Sony FS120
4th : Sony GDM-FW900

For 480p games, a big surprise here.

1st : Samsung F4500
2nd : Sony FW900
2nd (tied) : Sony BVM
4th : Sony FS120

I've long been wanting to get the Sony Wega XBR960 for 480p needs. (like Jet Set Radio Future) Guess I don't need to anymore. BTW, my ranking is assuming running in 640x480 for 240p games and 640x640 (slightly scaled vertically) for 480p games. I don't like the F4500's internal scaler, so I prefer not to use it if I can.

The only thing I don't like is the overscan on SD broadcast, Component and SCART, it seems to be 5% evenly distributed vertical and horizontal.

I have my PVM set up so that i have 6% horizontal overscan (perfect for PS1, PS2, Megadrive, SNES) and 0% overscan vertically (full 240p/480i for PS1, Xbox, 8 lines underscan top and bottom for 224p/448i). I have underscan set up as per the service manual (1cm underscan left and right, 0.5cm top and bottom).