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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Though this issue has been raised several times in the A10 official thread I have not yet heard of anyone that has verifiably gotten 1:1 pixel mapping with either the HDMI or VGA inputs. It would be most appreciated if someone with knowledge of the Sony service menu can confirm whether the A10s are capable of true 1:1 pixel mapping. Also here is the Grand Wega V Tweaks thread which lists how to get into the service menu though as of yet no one knows if their is a setting in the service menu that allows for 1:1 pixel mapping.


If anyone wants to test if they are getting 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI or VGA here is an old test pattern that has been used by a lot of AVS members to determine whether a display could do 1:1 pixel mapping. You save the image to your hard drive and than set it as your wallpaper with the tile setting. The test pattern was originally posted here .
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I tried emailing Sony about whether the A10 can do 1:1 pixel mapping and this was their response:
Quote:
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry regarding Sony televisions.


We do not have information regarding the 1:1 pixel mapping on Sony televisions. You can contact a Sony Authroized Service Technician in your area to know more information about the same.
To say the least I would have hoped that Sony's customer support would know what their TVs can do but apparently that was hoping for to much. Still after searching around I found the phone number that you can call to order a Sony service manual. For anyone who might be interested:


Sony Electronics Inc.

World Repair Parts Center

8281 N.W. 107th

Terrace Kansas City, MO 64153 USA

(800) 488-7669 (USA Only) -or- (800) 345-7669
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The last service manual I bought was for a Panasonic TV and it is was about $30 with shipping. Different manufacturers though charge different amounts for service manuals so I don't really know how much the service manual for the A10 might be.
 

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I placed an order for the manual on Monday. It was $13.xx with tax and shipping. They said they do not keep them in stock, they're print-on-demand, and that it would take 1-3 weeks to receive it.


I've got my PC hooked up to the VGA input and it looks pretty good. Text is a little too sharp in 'video' mode, but in 'text' mode it's comfortably readable from the couch. I had the same results as everyone else... 1280x720 has underscan, zooming results in overscan. My ATI driver has a feature for adjusting the display size, but for some reason it would only move the image up/down rather than increasing/decreasing the image to fill the screen.


Still, UT2004 at 1280x720, 6x AA, 16x AF, all quality settings in the drivers and in-game maxed out, is absolutely beautiful on the TV. I'd like to get 1:1 if possible, since it should improve PQ, but I wouldn't be unhappy if I had to settle for it like this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It is good to know that even without 1:1 pixel mapping the display works well with a PC. Also if your curious to try out the HDMI input on the TV, and if your PC can output a DVI signal, you can buy a HDMI cable and DVI-HDMI adaptor for around $15.
 

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It does not list the settings at all. It tells you how to get into the service menu, posts a screenshot of the first screen, walks through one particular diagnostic setting, and that's it. The rest of the book is exploded parts views, wiring diagrams, and schematics, all geared to troubleshooting a mechanical or electrical problem. If doesn't tell a service tech what to do to fix anything related to the picture, including geometry problems. It wouldn't provide any useful information at all to an ISF calibrator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I tried calling Sony's Parts Center to order the "Theory of Operations" manual, which is apparently the service manual for the service menu, that has been mentioned in the official A10 thread and they had no record of it in their database. I think that they probably list it only as a parts number so people can not easily order it, which is a lot easier then restricting who can order it. Personally I am somewhat amazed that it is so hard to get a real service manual for this TV. I bought a Panasonic service manual several years ago for a 36" TV and it was as simple as anyone could hope for. Besides giving the default level for all the various settings in the service menu it also explained what all the settings did. It was fairly easy to order from Panasonic and they even offered two day shipping for it. Personally I don't understand why Sony is going to so much trouble to prevent consumers from changing settings in their service menu.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Okay, this might just be a rumor but I have heard that the A10's can do 1:1 pixel mapping with both the HDMI and VGA inputs. With HDMI that is what is normally done while with the VGA input it is done by setting the picture mode to Zoom. Granted it has overscan but supposedly it is getting 1:1 pixel mapping and would be the best mode for something like the Xbox 360. Has anyone else heard this?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Okay, this might just be a rumor but I have heard that the A10's can do 1:1 pixel mapping with both the HDMI and VGA inputs. With HDMI that is what is normally done while with the VGA input it is done by setting the picture mode to Zoom. Granted it has overscan but supposedly it is getting 1:1 pixel mapping and would be the best mode for something like the Xbox 360. Has anyone else heard this?
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Okay, this might just be a rumor but I have heard that the A10's can do 1:1 pixel mapping with both the HDMI and VGA inputs. With HDMI that is what is normally done while with the VGA input it is done by setting the picture mode to Zoom. Granted it has overscan but supposedly it is getting 1:1 pixel mapping and would be the best mode for something like the Xbox 360. Has anyone else heard this?
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me.


I thought the point of 1:1 pixel mapping was to have the picture fill the entire screen perfectly with zero under or overscan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLX
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me.


I thought the point of 1:1 pixel mapping was to have the picture fill the entire screen perfectly with zero under or overscan.
1:1 pixel mapping is not really related to overscan and it is quite possible for a RPTV to have overscan and 1:1 pixel mapping. This is because of optical overscan which is when a projected image is slightly larger than the size of the screen. I believe that one reason it is done is because perfect optical sizing is hard even in a factory. Unlike CRT overscan which may be 5% or more optical overscan will be smaller at only 2-3%.


As for the main reason for 1:1 pixel mapping is to get a better image since the signal does not need to be scaled for that resolution. In fact 1:1 pixel mapping on a HD display will even help other HD resolutions since the scaling will be very smooth from 720p to 1080i and from 1080i to 720p. So a 720p display that does 1:1 pixel mapping will not only look better with 720p signals but also with 1080i signals as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just curious but has anyone tested the A10's to see if the HDMI input and VGA input (in Zoom mode) get 1:1 pixel mapping?
 

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In Zoom mode, text does look better. I don't know if that's because it's 1:1 or because it's just a little bigger. But I would suspect that Zoom mode is 1:1, just because one would think that sending a 1280x720 signal to a 1280x720 native LCD would be 1:1, unless correcting for overscan, which the Zoom mode does not seem to be doing.


I've spent some time trying to get a custom res with Powerstrip, but it's just not working. I've been using the program for a couple years, and had a couple custom resolutions set up for my previous 32" CRT HDTV, so I'm not new to it.


I'm using an X800XT PE, DVI-VGA, Cat 5.9 w/ regular CP. I followed the instructions Jag posted in the A10 thread for using Powerstrip's canned 1200x666 resolution, and it accepts the resolution. However, when I select it, it changes the display to 800x600.


I then tried using the custom resolution designer tool, and found that the best fit for the A10 in Zoom mode is 1216x684. Again, it accepts the resolution, but when I change to that resolution it goes to 800x600.


The odd thing is that although it does change to 800x600, and Powerstrip reports 800x600, the ATI control panel is showing it at 1200x666 or 1216x684. I'm thinking this might be a limitation within the ATI drivers when using the VGA-VGA or DVI-VGA. Perhaps it would work if I used a DVI-HDMI cable or component cables, but it would be a lot of work for me to test that out right now. I'm currently using the HDMI input for my DVD player and the two rear components for XBOX and PS2.


It seems all I've accomplished this morning is to add a bunch of odd resolutions to my ATI resolution list when I click the tray tool. I went into the user-defined resolution section of PS and removed all the ones I created, and asked that a record not be kept, and upon rebooting they don't show up under user defined resolutions anymore. But they still exist in the PS and ATI resolution selection sliders. I'm going to Google around and see if I can find where Windows stores resolution information... can't seem to find it in the registry or in any .ini files.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenmh
In Zoom mode, text does look better. I don't know if that's because it's 1:1 or because it's just a little bigger. But I would suspect that Zoom mode is 1:1, just because one would think that sending a 1280x720 signal to a 1280x720 native LCD would be 1:1, unless correcting for overscan, which the Zoom mode does not seem to be doing.
That is great to hear since Zoom mode could be used with the Xbox 360 and many PC games as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenmh
I then tried using the custom resolution designer tool, and found that the best fit for the A10 in Zoom mode is 1216x684. Again, it accepts the resolution, but when I change to that resolution it goes to 800x600.
I am not that knowledgable with HTPCs but I have heard their are ways to force a computer to work with custom resolutions like that. Perhaps if you post in the HTPC section of the forum someone could tell you how to do that. Personally though I would recommend sticking with the 720p resolution since most likely it will be a lot easier to get applications to work at that resolution. Also most PC games can probably be played in Zoom mode since many of them are now designed to accept a bit of overscan.
 

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I have noticed that many people confuse 1:1 pixel mapping and overscan/underscan.


in simple terms 1:1 pixel mapping ( for this LCD TV) means that you have a 1280x720 pixel signal going to the 1280x720 pixels on your LCD. This is of course as opposed to getting a 1920X1080 signal where some pixel will need to be dropped or a 760X480 signal where some pixels will need to be "created" to fit into the 1280x720 pixels on your grid.


Overscan is just a measure of where this image created by the grid is projected on to the screen. You could have 1:1 pixel mapping but have the image projection re-sized to be bigger than the screen (therefore edges hidden) or smaller than your screen (will look like black bars all around the screen) or just perfectly aligned with it (nearly impossible I think).


hope this makes sense.
 

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Update to my situation:


Uninstalled/reinstalled Powerstrip. That fixed the bug with it outputting 800x600 anytime I selected a custom resolution.


However, even with PS working, I still can't get anything other than plain vanilla 1280x720 to work with the TV. Using 1216x684 or 1200x600 actually makes the display BIGGER on the TV... MUCH bigger... i.e. MASSIVE overscan in zoom mode instead of just a little bit of overscan.


I thought that since Sony did something odd with the VGA input being based on 1280x768, I'd try doing a custom res based on that. Same result. As I tried out the various custom resolutions on my LCD monitor first, I could see it working right. i.e. 1280x720 fills the monitor, 1216x684 is underscanned on the monitor. ALT-F5 to switch to the TV, and it's ballooned up on the TV instead of shrinking down.


I tried toggling the "force 720p" button on and off under the display properties. No difference.


The only thing I can think of is that perhaps ATI cards don't work well with HDTVs over VGA connections. Has anyone gotten a custom resolution working with this TV using an ATI card via VGA?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Steven, instead of trying to use a custom resolution I think you will need to use overscan correction, which I believe is possible with ATI cards. Apparently the TV automatically upscales signals to 720p, which would only make overscan a bigger problem with custom resolutions. I believe that overscan correction can send a custom resolution like 1200x600 but can package it with filler so it looks like a 720p signal.
 
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