AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im about to make my first big screen purchase. The cost difference is roughly $500 between a Elite 530 and a Hitachi 51swx (the reason the difference is small because the store with elite includes warranty and the Hitachi's store does not). There isn't any store in my area that has both to do a side by side comparison. They both look good to me. I've been reading theese boards for a few months while I saved the money for my purchase and still have not made up my mind. Is there any truth to the posts that claim the only difference in the elites is the name and the nice looking cabinet?




Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,839 Posts
I guess you aren't getting any replies because people are afraid of starting a big opinion war...of course that is just normal on the forum :).


My opinion (JMHO) is that the Pioneer Elites are an outstanding choice, and that it has much more to do with the PQ and internal parts and build quality than just the name and nice cabinet. They also are renown for their good SD picture (although the Hitachi gets a good mention in this regard as well).


In your case it sounds like you can get 2" more of screen space, an "Elite" looking set, and a 2 year vs. 1 year built-in warranty for just a mere $500 more. Sounds like a good deal to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I'm in the same boat you're in. I have a Pioneer non-elite and I'm toying with upgrading. Based on my current TV, I'm partial to Pioneers, but I can get the Hitachi 57" for $800 less than the 530. What to do, what to do. Any takers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Just my two cents, but everytime I've been out looking at RPTV sets in the last two years, I always come away from the store thinking that the Pioneers have the best picture quality...


I would've bought one personally, but I use my tv about 40% of the time for video games, so I was worried about burn-in and eventually caved in and choose the Sony 50" GWII. Just wanted to echo that I thought the Pioneers are pretty high quality sets though... especially the elites.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
My problem: where to buy a Pioneer TV? Pioneer's website says that you can purchase their TVs at Circuit City, Good Guys, Best Buy, Crutchfield, etc.... but those sites don't list Pioneer at all. I saw a Pioneer at Grant's (a Chicago-area discounter) but was wondering if any major retailers sold Pioneers. Seems like I'm missing something? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,161 Posts
One of Pioneer's major shortcomings is that it is so hard to find the SD533 or SD643. I know many Costco stores have the 643 model, but the 533 is really hard to find and I don't know of any major retailers that carry them. I found one place in St. Louis that had the 533 and the local Costco had the 643. I ended up getting an Elite 530 and I couldn't be happier with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I like both sets and believe that both have their strong points. I have heard, from a reputable source, that the Hitachis have a slightly better color decoder and the Pioneers have better black levels. I personally bought the Hitachi 51swx and am very happy with it so far, but think you would probably be happy with either. Cost was a big consideration in my decision.


Allen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
I am a Pioneer Elite 510 owner who is upgrading to the 630 in the next 2 weeks. I have been considering all the available alternatives (Sammy DLP, Sony LCD and Other CRTs such as Hitachi) and cannot leave the Elite family. I am used to a high quality picture with the best looking cabinet which my wife now loves.


The two year warantee is the real deal, no ifs, ands or buts. I looked at the Hitachi's too and did see similar quality on HD content but I prefer the line doubler in the Elite for SD content. I have owned a 510 for over 2 years now and played a lot of X-Box, Playstation 2 without any burn-in as a result. As I considered all of the other alternatives I feel in love with the Elite's picture quality and cannot leave the family unless I am really moved. Now, is it worth the extra $500? Yes sir, IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,417 Posts
and I looked at the 57 xxw/swx to the 58 Pioneer and I liked the Hitachi's analog much better and the fact that with 2 set top boxes I can watch split doujble HD programming for sports on the Hitachi and the PIoneer and the Mitsu, the other set I considered I could not, and for those 2 reasons I went Hitachi.


If you don't mind the analog on the Pioneer Elite, then you may also want to consider the Mitsubishi Diamond 55 inch because that one size and model has the new .52 pitch screen for the first time and it is also a very good looking set. It is a little more then the Pioneer elite but shoud be considered. It is a shame you didn't do this a week ago when CC was running the 57xwx for 3399.


The Hitachi has very good HD, so does the PE, and both do very good DVD, but I think the PE is a little better there, and the Hitachi does much better on easy remote, set up, ability to keep alligned, and SD or analog. The PE wins on cabinet.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
29,681 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by alfack
I like both sets and believe that both have their strong points. I have heard, from a reputable source, that the Hitachis have a slightly better color decoder and the Pioneers have better black levels. I personally bought the Hitachi 51swx and am very happy with it so far, but think you would probably be happy with either. Cost was a big consideration in my decision.


Allen
Actually the SWX Hitachi has a better black level....


This was confirmed in back to back testing in perfect Vision magazine where the SWX Hitachi beat out the ELITE to earn the status of "REFERENCE DISPLAY" which other sets are compared to..


Hitachi still remains the REFERENCE after going head to head with Sony and Toshiba....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
29,681 Posts
I would also check out the XWX Hitachi which is better than the ELITE for less money


XWX has HDTV tuner

1394 X3

DVI X2

upradable MMC card slot for software upgrades

Better (Best in industry) anti glare screen

Nice High gloss black finish


The June 2003 issue of Stereophile's Guide to HomeTheater Magazine has a equipment report on the Hitachi 65XWX20B. The reviewer, Michael Fremer, took a Hitachi factory tour; here are some quotes:


" Once calibrated, the Ultravision 65XWX20B's DVD performance was flat out sensational. Colors were richly saturated, creating a mesmerizing, transparent, 3-dimensional picture. My next door neighbor came over for a look. He's got three little girls and has seen Monsters, Inc on his 57-inch Panasonic hi-def set dozens of times. I can't repeat in a family-friendly magazine the expletive he uttered when he saw what the 65XWX20B could do. Hitachi is the only maker of RPTVs that designs and manufacturers its own CRTs, lenses, and video-processing circuitry. While some companies are using lower-quality parts in their RPTVs to make them more competitive in a price driven market, it seems that Hitachi isn't and they make all the critical parts themselves. There are 65-inch RPTVs out there that cost less than the Hitachi Ultravision 65XWX20B, but I doubt that any can surpass its overall performance once its properly calibrated. In fact, I bought the review sample. After the calibration, my neighbor, Fred, dropped by again. He bought one too."


I would say the XWX hold it's own picture wise against the ELITE without question, and it offers more features for the money too...


ELITE = MARK UP


So the ELITE comes with a 2 year warranty.... please!


Buy a Service plan for $399 ontop a Hitachi and it's not only a better set, but a better choice with regards to money spent.


Hitachi = value

ELITE = Mark up, high costs for little gains
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Mfusick,


Do you sell the Hitachi set? You seem to always be praising them and trying to discount anyone that has a problem with one. And your same quote over and over of the review is getting old. My Hitachi was terrible even after calibration. It went back to the store.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
853 Posts
Quote:
The reviewer, Michael Fremer
Mike:

Hmmm...he was a record reviewer in The Absolute Sound when your Mom was still changing your pants for you (the underpants!).

Quote:
took a Hitachi factory tour
Well, in days of yore, that would have been glamorous...a trip to The Land of the Rising Sun. Today, it means the obscenely polluted slums of Juarez, Mexico. But someone paid for this trip, and lunch, and the hotel in El Paso, and the NICE dinner (with wine) in El Paso, and the plane ticket, and...

Quote:
While some companies are using lower-quality parts in their RPTVs to make them more competitive in a price driven market, it seems that Hitachi isn't and they make all the critical parts themselves.
I suppose it would be beneath Hitachi to OEM these CRTs to Pioneer, Toshiba, and Mitsubishi (CRTs only, not driver boards). And silly Pioneer, how dare they cheapen their sets by not using the Hitachi "designed and manufactured lense", instead using United States Precision Lens sets.

Quote:
but I doubt that any can surpass its overall performance once its properly calibrated.
PLUS...

Quote:
So the ELITE comes with a 2 year warranty.... please!
Quote:
Buy a Service plan for $399 ontop a Hitachi
Quote:
once its properly calibrated
Quote:
Hitachi = value
$400-500 for a calibration


Sayeth Tom Roper: "BS!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Mfusick
I would also check out the XWX Hitachi which is better than the ELITE for less money


XWX has HDTV tuner

1394 X3

DVI X2

upradable MMC card slot for software upgrades

Better (Best in industry) anti glare screen

Nice High gloss black finish


The June 2003 issue of Stereophile's Guide to HomeTheater Magazine has a equipment report on the Hitachi 65XWX20B. The reviewer, Michael Fremer, took a Hitachi factory tour; here are some quotes:


" Once calibrated, the Ultravision 65XWX20B's DVD performance was flat out sensational. Colors were richly saturated, creating a mesmerizing, transparent, 3-dimensional picture. My next door neighbor came over for a look. He's got three little girls and has seen Monsters, Inc on his 57-inch Panasonic hi-def set dozens of times. I can't repeat in a family-friendly magazine the expletive he uttered when he saw what the 65XWX20B could do. Hitachi is the only maker of RPTVs that designs and manufacturers its own CRTs, lenses, and video-processing circuitry. While some companies are using lower-quality parts in their RPTVs to make them more competitive in a price driven market, it seems that Hitachi isn't and they make all the critical parts themselves. There are 65-inch RPTVs out there that cost less than the Hitachi Ultravision 65XWX20B, but I doubt that any can surpass its overall performance once its properly calibrated. In fact, I bought the review sample. After the calibration, my neighbor, Fred, dropped by again. He bought one too."


I would say the XWX hold it's own picture wise against the ELITE without question, and it offers more features for the money too...


ELITE = MARK UP


So the ELITE comes with a 2 year warranty.... please!


Buy a Service plan for $399 ontop a Hitachi and it's not only a better set, but a better choice with regards to money spent.


Hitachi = value

ELITE = Mark up, high costs for little gains
Mfusick,


It is natural for a Hitachi dealer to automatically see the benefits of what they sell over what the competition sells. Since Tweeter sells the Pioneer Elite and in most Northeast cities Tweeter and CC go head to head. I would say that the Pioneer Elite is on par with the Hitatchi based upon my observations as a consumer, and I have nothing to gain from which one anyone else purchases. This comparison is based on both TVs being ISF calibrated by the same technician.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
29,681 Posts
I am not discounting the Pioneer, it's one of the very best sets you can get.


The title of this thread was "are the pioneer's worth the extra money" and I just don't think they are. Perhaps a few hundred more... but a few thousand more?


I don't think the Pioneer's are a few thousand dollars better, so I just don't think they are worth the money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Quote:
And your same quote over and over of the review is getting old.
You can accuse Mfusick of lots of things, but his opinions are always backed up with facts, and his facts are always fresh. He is quoting a 6/03 review!


After reading another thread, I went to CC and looked at the Hitachi SWX again (65" version). It was next to the Sony GWII (50"). The picture on the SWX did not look as good - but I know nothing about how they were tweaked. (I also realize the size difference is part of the issue). I noticed that the blacks on the Hitachi were richer, but the picture seemed grainier and the other colors not as rich or vibrant. I also noticed that the stretch mode on the SWX made the TV anchors look 30 lbs heavier, whereas the Sony only seemed to add 10lbs.


I also went to the book store and saw a recent review of a Toshiba set (Perfect Vision) that compared itself to the Hitachi. The Toshiba was close but not quite to the level of the Hitachi according to the reviewer. I find it hard to buy a set based on reviews and other people's opinions. If nothing else, this forum clearly illustrates that a good TV picture is a very personal opinion. But without the wherewithal to do my own true side-by-side comparisons with my configuration (e.g., DirecTV TIVO) with similarly calibrated sets, I may have to do just that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by cBandit
You can accuse Mfusick of lots of things, but his opinions are always backed up with facts, and his facts are always fresh. He is quoting a 6/03 review!


After reading another thread, I went to CC and looked at the Hitachi SWX again (65" version). It was next to the Sony GWII (50"). The picture on the SWX did not look as good - but I know nothing about how they were tweaked. (I also realize the size difference is part of the issue). I noticed that the blacks on the Hitachi were richer, but the picture seemed grainier and the other colors not as rich or vibrant. I also noticed that the stretch mode on the SWX made the TV anchors look 30 lbs heavier, whereas the Sony only seemed to add 10lbs.


I also went to the book store and saw a recent review of a Toshiba set (Perfect Vision) that compared itself to the Hitachi. The Toshiba was close but not quite to the level of the Hitachi according to the reviewer. I find it hard to buy a set based on reviews and other people's opinions. If nothing else, this forum clearly illustrates that a good TV picture is a very personal opinion. But without the wherewithal to do my own true side-by-side comparisons with my configuration (e.g., DirecTV TIVO) with similarly calibrated sets, I may have to do just that.


C'mon now, I didn't accuse Mfusick of anything, I said "It is natural for a Hitachi dealer to automatically see the benefits of what they sell over what the competition sells." The review Mfusick is quoting is not scientific either so one cannot deduce anything other than one well educated reviewer likes one display better than another. There are many well educated reviewers that would position the Elite above all else and I feel the same way about their opinion. Don't ask me to come up with reprints of those reviews because I don't meet with sale reps who hand this stuff out all the time :). Of course the Stereophile's Guide to HomeTheater Magazine reprint has been marketed heavily by the Hitachi sales reps so they are pushing their best review to date. If anything, I would indict product marketing because these days its not about how great the display has been designed but how well it's marketed.


Of course I am a sales and marketing director myself so I can stand behind that strategy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Quote:
C'mon now, I didn't accuse Mfusick of anything ...
C'mon, I didn't quote you or accuse you of anything. It was ram1220 that I quoted.


I think that Mfusick clarified (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Pioneer Elite may have slightly better PQ than the Hitachi, but he felt that were not worth the considerable extra dollars. This is clearly his opinion.


His store doesn't sell Pioneer Elite, so you have to take what he says about them with that in mind. However, he does sell Sony and Hitachi and is recommending the lower dollar / lower margin unit. Its clear that the professional publications favor the Hitachi, scientific or not, which gives Mfusick's position additional clout. He clearly has done his homework, and although not the right choice for everyone, you can't dismiss his opinion. He's either a very good liar ;) or is actually trying to help people better evaluate their alternatives.




cBandit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
I think if you would do a search here and on other HT forums regarding the Elites plus the Hatachi your mind would be made up pretty fast. You just dont see folks complaining about their Elites.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top