[HT Gearhead]

Time is running out on the Hsu VTF-3 sale. I was planing on going with a B&W or Rocket 7.1 set-up and using the VTF-3 as the sub. Can anyone tell if there is a better sub in the price range ($1000). I plan on using it mostly for home theater but I want it to be somewhat musical two. Main speakers in either system will be the Rocket 750's or the B&W 604's. Room size is approx. 23.5x13ft. Appreciate your comments.

 

[m_l]

Take a look at the Titan from ACI.

http://www.audioc.com/speakers/TitanII/2001Titanle.htm

 

[officiousintermeddler]

Also take a look at the offerings from SVS. The 20-39PC+ is in your price range, as is the 16-46PC+. They would compete very well with the VTF-3 (I own dual 20-39PC+ subs) and decided on SVS over the VTF-3 only because I wanted cylindrical subs in my room (but other than that, both companies produce exceptional products at very fair prices).


I have Rocket 750's all around and the 200 center. Room is 30 by 25 with 14 foot ceiling. One of the SVS subs does just fine. Two are better! The Rockets blend with the 20-39PC+ perfectly.

 

[HT Gearhead]

Whew! Only three hours left. Thanks for the replys. Looking into the Titan, looks very impressive!


Comparing the Hsu to the SVS sub, is their any difference in terms of side firing vs. down firing? It will be sitting on a carpeted floor. How about tweakability?


Think the SVS team will tie their accountant up again and hold another summer sale?

 

[Alex Prosak]

Quote:

Originally posted by HT Gearhead Comparing the Hsu to the SVS sub, is their any difference in terms of side firing vs. down firing? It will be sitting on a carpeted floor. How about tweakability? Think the SVS team will tie their accountant up again and hold another summer sale?

It may be harder to "locate" a downfiring sub than a forward firing one, meaning it may blend slightly better.


I doubt they will be having another hog tied the accountant sale. With their production costs increasing and their maintaining current prices, we're really already getting a sale.


I currently have a Rocket 7.0 setup and will be adding the SVS PB-2+ when it comes available. But I need a lot of sub, my room is 30 x 27 w/ 8' ceilings, pad and carpet on concrete slab, and open to other large areas of the house.

 

[lipoman]

HT Gearhead,


YGM.


Hugh

 

[Chip E]

Why worry about a sale when the SVS is within your stated budget. The 20-39PC+ will go lower than the HSU stock and just as loud if not louder. Obviously the 16-46PC+ would be a real bottom feeder too..

 

[HT Gearhead]

To the gentlemen that sent me the PM's, thank you.


ChipE

Your absolutely right! But, I'm always looking to save a few bucks or move up to the next best thing.


Alex

Thankyou for your input, maybe the front firing sub is the best way to go since it is less forgiving in terms of placement. Although it is much heavier than a cylinder would be so moving it around the room looking for the perfect spot is going to be a killer.

 

[officiousintermeddler]

I think you may have misunderstood. Why would a less forgiving sub be "the best way to go"? You should be aiming to make the sub invisible acoustically so that you cannot "place" it by sound in the room. This is different than physical placement.

Quote:

Originally posted by HT Gearhead Alex Thankyou for your input, maybe the front firing sub is the best way to go since it is less forgiving in terms of placement. Although it is much heavier than a cylinder would be so moving it around the room looking for the perfect spot is going to be a killer.

 

[Rascal 19]

Quote:

Originally posted by HT Gearhead maybe the front firing sub is the best way to go since it is less forgiving in terms of placement.

I don't understand - you want a sub that's _harder_ to place?


- Mark

 

[sushi]

Quote:

It may be harder to "locate" a downfiring sub than a forward firing one, meaning it may blend slightly better.

I personally do not think the firing direction of a sub significantly affects its localizeability. A properly calibrated subwoofer sound should be equally difficult to locate regardless of bottom, forward, back or internally firing designs. When you can localize the sub sound, it is almost certain that the sub is playing too loud.

 

[HT Gearhead]

My mistake guys! Sorry. Thats what happens when you try and do too many things a one time. Man I feel like an idiot. I understand the relationship between the sub's location in the room and calibrating to get a flat response between 16Hz - 120Hz. I guess what I'm asking is what sub would blend well with either speaker system. Thanks

 

[Alex Prosak]

Quote:

Originally posted by sushi I personally do not think the firing direction of a sub significantly affects its localizeability. A properly calibrated subwoofer sound should be equally difficult to locate regardless of bottom, forward, back or internally firing designs. When you can localize the sub sound, it is almost certain that the sub is playing too loud.

Agreed, when properly calibrated you shouldn't be able to determine the subs location. Unfortunately, I've heard a lot of uncalibrated systems. I get the impression that HT Gearhead is aware of this and will calibrate so it shouldn't be an issue. When a system is uncalibrated, the downfiring sub should be more forgiving.

 

[bob23_60201]

"only because I wanted cylindrical subs in my room"


You do realize that Hsu has the TN series, cylindrical subwoofers?


"The 20-39PC+ will go lower than the HSU stock and just as loud if not louder."


I think you are mistaken here. Can you quote any professional objective measurements showing that it goes lower than a VTF-3?


Howard Ferster has tested a VTF-3 and TN1220HO/250 watt amp, and he found them both flat to 20Hz (just as flat as an 18 inch Velodyne). The TN1220HO could also run with the 18 inch Velodyne down to 20Hz in max clean output tests. The TN1220HO has been tested to be -3db at 15Hz! This is not even manufacturer specs, this is by a professional reviewers.


Also note the accuracy...+/- 1 db at 18Hz for the VTF-3.


The TN1220HO/250 watt amp is arguably better than the VTF-3. Might play slightly lower, and can play cleaner and louder at very low frequencies. Also takes up much less floorspace.


Obviously the VTF-3 has the appealing box-type shape.


The TN1220HO with the 500 watt amp opens up another set of options. Class H amp, class A crossover, HP/LP, slick appearance, and sends 800+ watts into two TN series subwoofers.


If you want good, accurate info about Hsu products, look here:

http://hsuresearch.com/forum/

 

[bob23_60201]

To answer your question...there are lots of great products out there in this price range, and they come in all types of shapes and sizes and finishes. Not exactly a clear-cut decision.

 

[HT Gearhead]

Bob

Thanks for the info on the TN1220HO and the HSU forum, it was very helpful. I'm very much interested in both the VTF-3 and the TN1220HO and will probably choose between these two subs.

 

[officiousintermeddler]

Yes, the TN subs are great and I saw them at CES this year and talked to Dr. Hsu about them. The problem for me is that they were top heavy and slim (much slimmer than the SVS subs). I have small kids and worried that they might knock them over. I did not want to place the subs behind the couch, and the SVS subs seemed to be comparable, so it was not too tough a decision. If knocking them over is not a concern, the TN subs will be great in your system. Dr. HSU said to me previously that the TN subs are slightly better than the VTF-3 -- I agrree with the reasons you list below.

Quote:

Originally posted by bob23_60201 "only because I wanted cylindrical subs in my room" You do realize that Hsu has the TN series, cylindrical subwoofers? ...The TN1220HO/250 watt amp is arguably better than the VTF-3. Might play slightly lower, and can play cleaner and louder at very low frequencies. Also takes up much less floorspace. Obviously the VTF-3 has the appealing box-type shape.

 

[bob23_60201]

There are ways to avoid top-heaviness with the TN series:

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forum...topic.php?t=57


One guy said he used a $3 solution, and that it sounded even better.


Having the driver at top and port at bottom does give some potentially significant advantages: the port noise can be effectively absorbed by the floor, particularly on carpet. So you can drive the TN series to maximum output levels at very low frequencies without suffering from any port noise (this was Howard Ferstler's observation).


For the most part, especially corner loaded, it won't really go anywhere. Stability also depends on how even the floor surface is. Still, the new TN series will address this issue with a custom stand. The only question is when the new TN series will be out. Who knows