[BruceOmega]

I don't know if this is a question that is disc dependent or player dependent.


For the analog putputs of a DVD-A, SACD, or Universal player, is there an option to output multichannel/5.1 sources in stereo/2.0?


I just found out, through the expertise of the AVS Processor forum, that for 2.0 channel SACDs, you can connect the analog outputs of the player to the stereo analog inputs of a PrePro, do an A-to-D conversion, and then perform PrePro surround processing like bass management, time alignment, and, in the case of Lexicon, Logic 7. I realize this is at the expense of an extra A-to-D and then D-to-A conversion.


For 5.1 DVD-A/SACD sources, I assume I could always digitize the L/R outputs, and do the same thing, but don't know how well that would work if I'm missing the .1 and surround channels.


Thanks

Bruce

 

[yellowlt4]

I'm not exactly sure what your end goal is. However putting an SACD/DVD-A signal thru an A-to-D and then D-to-A process is defeating the purpose of High resolution multichannel audio. Once you have completed this process you are left with nothing more than 2 channel, 16/44, redbook sound quality.

 

[sdurani]

Bruce,


All SACDs have hi-rez 2-channel tracks, so you don't need to fold down the multi-channel mix to 2 channels. Most DVD-As have hi-res 2-channel tracks also; for those that don't, the multi-channel tracks have mixdown coefficients encoded in the data that instruct the DVD-A player how to fold down the 5.1 tracks in accordance with the recording engineer's wishes. In both cases, DVD-A and SACD, 2-channel playback is covered.


On hybrid SACDs, where there are 2-channel CD tracks and 2-channel SACD tracks, I've compared clean CD playback to SACD played back through my Lexicon's A/D and D/A converters. No contest: even with the additional conversion steps, the SACD tracks sounded better. The original SACD source is very high resolution; the A/D & D/A conversion is very high quality; the results still retain more resolution than the CD.


Best,

Sanjay

 

[BruceOmega]

Sanjay, thank you, that is exactly the information I was seeking.


yellowlt4, I would like to have the option of using a PrePro to do time alignment, speaker level calibration, bass management, and listening in 7.1 versus 5.1 for DVD-A and SACD sources. This would be an alternative to any of the first 3 functions that could be performed in the DVD-A/SACD player and then using straight 5.1 pass through in the PrePro, which will not give me 7.1. The Lexicon MC-12 can do this by digitizing the 5.1 analog inputs, which is why I very much appreciated Sanjay's comments on audio quality. However, I would prefer to buy the MC-8. Although it cannot digitize 5.1 inputs, it can do 7.1 and hopefully is similar to the MC-12 in maintaining most, if not exactly all of the DVD-A/SACD audio advantage over Redbook CDs.


Thanks

Bruce

 

[yellowlt4]

Quote:

[yellowlt4, I would like to have the option of using a PrePro to do time alignment, speaker level calibration, bass management, and listening in 7.1 versus 5.1 for DVD-A and SACD sources. This would be an alternative to any of the first 3 functions that could be performed in the DVD-A/SACD player and then using straight 5.1 pass through in the PrePro, which will not give me 7.1. The Lexicon MC-12 can do this by digitizing the 5.1 analog inputs, which is why I very much appreciated Sanjay's comments on audio quality. However, I would prefer to buy the MC-8. Although it cannot digitize 5.1 inputs, it can do 7.1 and hopefully is similar to the MC-12 in maintaining most, if not exactly all of the DVD-A/SACD audio advantage over Redbook CDs. Thanks Bruce [/b]

This is all fine and I guess I see now what you are trying to accomplish however you will be losing most if not all of the added benfits that high resolution sources like DVD-A and SACD offer. The Lexicon has a good DAC but IMO it will in no way compare to the true high resolution signal of a good DVD-A or SACD player. It is my experience that by doing what you are doing you are simply losing too much.


Not only that but in some cases you will be taking a high resolution descrete 5.1 mix, down folding to 2 channel, feeding it thru a redbook a-to-d convertor and then using DSP to convert that to a 7.1 signal then going thru another d-to-a process all before getting to the amplifier. I just dont see how this is going to yield any benefit in the way of actual sound quality.

 

[sdurani]

Quote:

...you are left with nothing more than 2 channel, 16/44, redbook sound quality.

Quote:

feeding it thru a redbook a-to-d convertor

Redbook?


Like many modern processors and receivers, the MC-8 has 24/96 A to D converters and 24/192 DACs.


Where are you getting the idea that a high resolution analog signal passing through this conversion will end up with 16/44.1 resolution?


Best,

Sanjay

 

[yellowlt4]

Quote:

Where are you getting the idea that a high resolution analog signal passing through this conversion will end up with 16/44.1 resolution? Best, Sanjay

Sanjay, so redbook isn't the proper term. However this process will degrade the sound significantly, at least in my experience. Why not listen to the recording as the engineers intended for it to be played back and hear it exactly as it was recorded? Does the MC-8 not have a true 5.1 analog pass thru?

 

[BruceOmega]

yellowlt4


My $0.02 worth- yes, the MC-8 has 5.1 pass through. But then you are dependent on the player or external devices to do any bass management, which is a must for me, as well as time alignment and speaker level calibration which I think is of definite benefit in multi channel/surround listening. In this mode, the MC-8 can duplicate the side channel signals in the rear channels, providing an output from all 7.1 speakers. If I buy the MC-8, I will try this and want to have it as an option.


However, if I digitize the high resolution 2.0 inputs, I can use the MC-8 for all of the above. Plus, I can use use Logic 7 to get 7.1 output from the 2.0 input. It won't be the same as the original surround mix, but it will be 7.1 which I really really like. As for audio quality, what I picked up on is that digitizing the high resolution 2.0 inputs still sounds better than regular CDs. Again, this would be a listening option at my disposal.


All of the above is a stop gap until the industry gets its act together for DVD-A/SACD digital connections.


Thanks

Bruce

 

[sdurani]

Quote:

Why not listen to the recording as the engineers intended for it to be played back and hear it exactly as it was recorded? Does the MC-8 not have a true 5.1 analog pass thru?

The MC-8 has true analog bypass for both 5.1 and 2-channel sources. Still, on my MC-12, I prefer to digitize the 5.1 signal in order to apply further processing. I've compared true analog bypass vs digitizing the 5.1 signal and have notice a very small difference in sound quality, with the bypass sounding slightly cleaner (very slightly).


However, this difference becomes negligible when compared to the ability to time align and bass manage a 5.1 signal. Without a hi-res digital audio interface, we're each forced to make compromises when listening to DVD-A and SACD. For me, proper time alignment and bass management are critical, and significantly outweigh any minor sonic degradation the signal might incurr by being digitized.


As I said before, I've compared clean playback of the redbook CD track to the digitized DSD track (on the same stereo SACD). The higher resolution of the DSD track is still apparent, even with the extra conversion steps; the CD track sounded a bit muffled in comparison. Same with DVD-Audio discs, where you have DD and MLP 5.1-channel tracks: even with the additional A/D and D/A steps, the MLP tracks still sound better than clean playback of their DD counterparts.


Best,

Sanjay