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Is there any video processor on the market that will overlay a low resolution video with scanlines? What I am referring to when I say low resolution is 240p or 480i with the same field overlapping itself.


The only video processors I know that do this is the XRGB2+ and XRGB3. I would like to find an alternative that isn't japanese only and maybe costs a little less.


Thanks.
 

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I would gladly pay ANY price, but before we can think of that we need proper 240p handling. And I think we're FAR from it. It's been discussed and other threads before and I just don't think the manufacturers will give it a shot anytime soon. Hell, ABT has even dropped vintage videogame support. No more NES or SNES on VP50(Pro). Think about that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh /forum/post/12971368


I would gladly pay ANY price, but before we can think of that we need proper 240p handling. And I think we're FAR from it. It's been discussed and other threads before and I just don't think the manufacturers will give it a shot anytime soon. Hell, ABT has even dropped vintage videogame support. No more NES or SNES on VP50(Pro). Think about that.

Whaaaaaaaaat?! Are you for real? Man o man, at least Lumagen has put it in the "maybe" category for the XD. Scanlines would be ideal, but if they're able to implement proper 240p handling into the HDQ as well as the XD they've got a sale. (XD is a little more than I need for a NES)


ABT...jeez.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh /forum/post/12971368


I would gladly pay ANY price, but before we can think of that we need proper 240p handling. And I think we're FAR from it. It's been discussed and other threads before and I just don't think the manufacturers will give it a shot anytime soon. Hell, ABT has even dropped vintage videogame support. No more NES or SNES on VP50(Pro). Think about that.

I'm not familiar with ABT products, but did a older version use to have a scanline overlay option for low resolution content?


If not, there are absolutely no video processors that have an option to overlay scanlines besides the XRGB2+ and XRGB3? Wow, thats amazing
 

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I hear DScaler does it if you have an HTPC. I use an XRGB-2+ in the chain before my VP50, personally. I read once about someone using some sort of ancient Extron broadcast equipment to do it. That's all the ways I know, though.
 

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I've got a Sweetspot cart running with Dscaler on my PC, but it's far from performing anywhere near the better standalone scalers and can't help you with scanlines (except I've been missing something **).


I'm the one with the Extron scanline website, but you simply can't get a scanlined picture into a videoprocessing unit. You can use those Extron machines to get scanlines back into an interlaced picture (15khz only).


** from my idea combining Dscaler with live Avisynth processing could do the trick, but I don't know which program you can use to get AVIsynth to work with live input signals.
 

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Wow, Fudoh. That I remembered anything about that Extron website from years ago means I was impressed. I had no idea that was you.


Anyway, Fusion, I guess the only thing I have to add is that when I was researching what XRGB to get a year or two ago, I got the impression that the new (at the time) XRGB-3 had some sort of diminished capacity for scanline emulation and that its new digital output introduced lag if you used it. I may be misremembering the exact details, but I do know my conclusion was that I needed to scour eBay for an XRGB-2+ instead of taking the easy route and buying a new XRGB-3. The downside of the 2+ is that there can be some minor instability in the details of the image. You might keep that tradeoff in mind if you decide to get one.


If someone would just spend a little time to put good 240p and scanline emulation into a real VP, this whole problem would just go away. DVDO is clearly not the least bit interested, but I'm holding onto the fantasy that Lumagen will find the time to add it to their Radiance once they get all the essential features finished and move on to their wishlist. Well, it's nice to dream.
 

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Well spoken. Especially if you take into mind how easy scanlines are emulated on a PC. With a half-transparent overlay (like it's used in current MAME versions) you can do very nice stuff and the sad thing about it is that the iScan VP... units basically already have this feature (when you use the info screen overlay), so it would actually be very easy to add little (user-loadable) graphics overlay which would then be tiled over the screen.


So to speak - just a step away, but miles from it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh /forum/post/12992989


Well spoken. Especially if you take into mind how easy scanlines are emulated on a PC. With a half-transparent overlay (like it's used in current MAME versions) you can do very nice stuff and the sad thing about it is that the iScan VP... units basically already have this feature (when you use the info screen overlay), so it would actually be very easy to add little (user-loadable) graphics overlay which would then be tiled over the screen.


So to speak - just a step away, but miles from it.

I am curious how you determined that adding (user-loadable) graphics in a overlay would be very easy?
 

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Josh,


ok, it might have been a bit overhasty - my apologies - but only a TINY LITTLE bit I think



Looking at the info window on my 50pro I can see that the complete iscan family can do some kind of alpha-blended graphics overlay without disturbing the processor's work. And I imagine it can't be too difficult to use the same feature for some other overlays features. And - if I remember correctly - the transparecy of the info VP... info window is even user adjustable, so all we need is a overlay pattern and a user-adjustable transparency setting for it and we're done.


Here is a tile which is used for scaline emulation on the PC:




Basically white = 100% transparent, black = 0% transparency and the greys in between. I think the VP... series is easily able to handle something like this and even without user-loadable graphics, a few pre-defined settings would easily be enough to make the VP50 every retro-gamer's dream.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I just talked to a buddy who does a lot of work in the broadcast industry and he advised to have a look at the Blackmagic Intensity with it's new on-air feature. The card has a 720p60 HDMI input + output plus a live mixer, so you can easily overlay graphics on the fly. I'll contact Blackmagic to find out how long the card delays the signal while processing the overlay, but it's a good idea as the card is quite cheap ($300).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PS: Josh,


I emailed the ABT support team a few weeks back about the VP50 incompatibility to older videogame systems. Since I got no reply, I emailed you directly recently, but got no reply either. Am I doing anything wrong ? Shall I try emailing again ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh /forum/post/12993645


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I just talked to a buddy who does a lot of work in the broadcast industry and he advised to have a look at the Blackmagic Intensity with it's new on-air feature. The card has a 720p60 HDMI input + output plus a live mixer, so you can easily overlay graphics on the fly. I'll contact Blackmagic to find out how long the card delays the signal while processing the overlay, but it's a good idea as the card is quite cheap ($300).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please post your findings here--this approach intrigues me...
 

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While we're at it and without pushing up the rather old other gaming threads. Another "need" is the possibility to rotate the image 90° clockwise and counter-clockwise. Another rather simple task I would assume which just no videoprocessor manufacturer has integrated yet. There are standalone machines who can do this, but the scaling involved is a no-go and the ones I know are analogue only. Especially the possibility to rotate the picture directly after the deinterlacing, but prior to the scaling would be a nice one.
 

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Rotation would be excellent.


Right now, VP makers put in diminishing returns features for movies while ignoring the basics for gaming, and I think it's because of the persistent but outdated and quite wrong belief that real adults just don't care about videogames. Gaming is becoming more and more widespread; I think we'll have to wait until a VP maker is personally a gamer for all this to actually happen, but it's probably only a matter of time. Hmm, make that a retro gamer. Well, one can hope.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FusionITR /forum/post/12971029


Is there any video processor on the market that will overlay a low resolution video with scanlines? What I am referring to when I say low resolution is 240p or 480i with the same field overlapping itself.


The only video processors I know that do this is the XRGB2+ and XRGB3. I would like to find an alternative that isn't japanese only and maybe costs a little less.


Thanks.

Now I would be really interested to know how exactly can I enable scanlines mode with XRGB-3, as since I got mine last year, I could not find any option in the menu similar to the one in the XRGB-2 (I had one too, and I can read a bit of japanese). Moreover nobody could find an answer in the forums where I asked for help
 

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old thread, I know, but who cares



Remember the LiveKey function on the VP wishlist of us gaming enthusiasts ? I still don't understand why there's not a single videoprocessor which has alpha-key functions. I recently got a Blackmagic Multibridge and it has a LiveKey function for SD and HD video. This way you can do scanline overlays for every signal the box accepts.


Here's a shot of a scanline overlay for a 720p signal from a XBox360. There's no added delay and it works right out of the box.




I've created a thread on the shmups.com hardware board the gamesx.com board as well, so feel free to continue the discussion over there. Might interest more people there than in here...
 

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That is pure gold. Too bad it appears that their Intensity card doesn't support LiveKey. Multibridge is a bit much to buy to get scanlines. At least for me.
 

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Personally, I just use a ruler and a black marker to draw the scanlines right on my screen. It works great!
 
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