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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have it narrowed down to either the Rotel RMB 1095 200 X5 or the Outlaw 770 200 X 7 or the Odyssey Strato 150 X5 with a 20 yr warranty to boot.


Question is if I go with the Odessey 150 watt vs 200 watts amplifier, what will I be missing? Using this amp to drive Klipsch speakers?


Im new to this and try to absorb all I can. I want to make a sound purchase. Your help would be appreciated
 

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Todd,


Klipsh speakers tend to be quite efficent, so 150W/channel should be more than enough, unless you have a very large room with very absorbant wall coverings.


Having more power available reduces the liklihood that your system will clip the peaks of loud passages, since you'll tend to play them at a slightly lower preamp volume setting. However, there is not much audible volume difference between speakers being driven at 150 Watts vs 200 Watts, since our hearing is quite nonlinear. A 33% increase in volume is not very large.


I hope this helps a little.
 

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generally a 3dB change is detectable to the human ear.. that is double the power in watts
 

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While I've heard good things about Outlaw amps, I don't think it can compare to the Rotel RMB-1095. I'd choose the Rotel, and even the Stratos, over the Outlaw. However, between the Rotel and the Stratos it'll be hard to choose without listening. Personally I have a Rotel RMB-1095 so I might be biased. I read a review of the 2 channel version of the 1095(2x380W IIRC) vs the 2 channel version of the Stratos a couple months ago(I think on the Absolute Sound) and the conclusion was that they were similar performers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Goi,


Can you post the link for that article on the Two Amps (Stratos and the Rotel) I do like the Rotel which can be had locally for around 1800.00 vs buying a 2 channel and 3 channel amp from Odyssey which would rack my wallet around 2400 after a 120 capacity upgrade.


Thank you


Todd
 

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GBishop:


A 1 dB change is what is considered the typical reliable change in SPL that we can detect.


3dB represents a doubling of required power, but because our hearing sensitivity is logarithmic, we don't perceive it as a doubling of apparent volume.


10dB represents a x10 increase in required power, and because of the nature of our hearing sensitivity we perceive this as a doubling of volume.


Regards,
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by cub
"3dB represents a doubling of required power, but because our hearing sensitivity is logarithmic, we don't perceive it as a doubling of apparent volume. "


And is the minimum perceptable change that a human can hear...not 1dB.
cub,


I have to disagree. I know that I can hear a 1dB difference. It is quite apparent when I'm level matching my speakers and turning them up/down 1dB at a time. Perhaps if you took me into a room, made me listen to sound at 78dB, waited a second, and then had me listen at 79dB I wouldn't notice a difference, but that's more of a sonic memory question than one of the resolution of the ear. My ear definitely has a resolution better than 1dB and I don't think I'm special in that.


jake
 

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Todd, I'd love to, but I read it on a magazine, not online. IIRC, that magazine was The Absolute Sound, which does have an online version, but you have to pay to read the .pdf articles online. I forgot which issue it is also, but it was definitely within this year(2001).
 

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Cub,


Yeah, those damned physics and engineering syllabi and course documents are usually rife with errors.


Those were just 2 links from hundreds upon hundreds.


Please contact the Universities involved and inform them all their studies on perceptual acoustics are incorrect, because you know much better.


I quickly anted up with supporting links from two seperate Universities.


You have countered with nothing.


Thanks for playing.


Regards,
 

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john,


[sarcasm] your material looks pretty suspect to me... I mean just because I can hear a 1 dB difference myself doesn't mean I should just believe some quack physics professor. for all I know, someone just made up all those dry technical statistics and posted them at separate universities for fun! I remember one of my physics profs tried to tell me F=ma... what a hoot!

[/sarcasm]

LOL :D


jake
 

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Jake,


Yep. They have so much vested interest that they can hardly be objective ;) How dare they go out miseducating all those students for years and years and years -- all the time using their exhaustive tests on the topic, when he (cub) alone has the answer.


Then again, there have been instances where someone has been the "heretic" and been right. Galileo comes to mind at the moment. Thankfully these days we don't torture heretics on a regular basis.


Now, if cub were to make his point differently, I probably wouldn't even argue with his statement.


3dB is an easily noticable difference, which requires twice the amplifier power to deliver. So if he were to couch it in terms such as:

The difference in output of the 150w vs 200w amp is 1dB, and you'd barely hear a difference between their maximum unclipped output level.


I'd agree with that one.


Perhaps this is the point he was really trying to make.


Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So basically what you guys are arguing about is that going from 150 to 200 watts is not worth the extra cash. Find a good 150 watt 5 channel amp and go with it right?


With that being said, what do you feel are good 5 channel amps under 2K?



Thank you


Todd


I was leaning towards a rotel rmb 1095 for 1800.00 (200 watts x5). But if I can save some money that would be great. How about the outlaw 750 (165 x5)?
 

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In the sub-2K price range, the following come to mind:

Rotel RMB-1095

Acurus A5x200x5

Anthem MCA-5

Parasound HCA-2205AT

Sherbourn 5/1500

Outlaw 750

The Odyssey one(can't remember model)
 

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Todd,


We're saying the maximum SPL from a 150w vs. 200w amplifier is not very much. So anything in that range is worth looking at provided it's adequate to provide you with undistorted output at your maximum listening volume.


The gain (vs 1w) of a 150w amplifier is about 22dB, whereas the 200w amplifier is about 23dB.


So a 90dB speaker (at 1m) will be driven at 112dB and 113dB with a 150w and 200w amplifier at full power output.


This is a barely discernible difference.


It says absolutely nothing about the sonic qualities/merits of the two which is yet another argument.


Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
John,


You know your stuff, and I would like some recommendations from you for a 5 channel amp. Goi has been so kind to give his recommendations and I am researching and reading all I can about them.


My set up:


Klipsch reference all around

SVS 20-39 PC

Denon AVR 3300 which I will use as my Pre.


Thank you,


Todd
 

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Todd,


I think Goi gave you a really nice set of recommendations.


Here are a couple that might be workable within your budget.


Cinepro 2K6, Series II -- you have to get this direct from Cinepro if they have any left. They are now on Series III, but the Series II was a very nice amp as well.


If you aren't averse to used, I'd consider a couple of these as options:


Sunfire Cinema Grand

EAD Powermaster 1000


There are likely others that should be on your list, but I don't yet have an exhaustive knowledge of the marketplace ;-)


Regards,
 

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Yeah cub, those engineering depts and physics dept references I cited are clearly devoid of any science whatsoever.


I still await just one reference that 3dB is the minimum barely perceptible SPL variation that isn't one that you've typed within the confines of this thread.


Regards,
 

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This is pretty funny. I think I'll join in.


Anyway, all this business about the validity of the links posted is pretty irrelevant, as Jake keeps pointing out. Just do the test yourself, cub! Do a simple test with a friend and an SPL meter. Try increasing and decreasing the volume of your stereo by one db, while playing a constant tone. See if your friend can tell if you made it louder or softer.


And Cub, it's "its", not "it's".


- Dave
 
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