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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I finally got all the pieces together. Here's the video setup:


Boxlight 38T (Sanyo XP21-N clone)

Quadscan Elite coupled to 38T via VGA into Computer 1.

Panasonic RV80 DVD player connected to Quadscan via component.

35' VGA cable from MVS.


Quadscan is set to defaults, auto source detect and auto DSP processing.


Here's the problem, very pronounced on Gladiator:


Picture is sharp, color is perfect BUT when they pan vertically up or down, horizontal picture elements get very visibly wavy. Horizontal pans (left to right) do not produce this effect.


I thought this might have been a problem with my old Toshiba 2109 DVD player which is why I switched to the RV80. The "vertical ghost" I reported earlier with the Gladiator disk is gone and in general the picture is far sharper and the color better. But I still get this problem on vertical pans.


I searched both this forum and the video processor forum and found a lot of discussion which sounds like this effect being seen on DLP projectors. But can it also occur on LCD? If so, is there anything I can do about it by varying the settings of the projector?


Or is this a Quadscan problem? It doesn't seem to matter to this problem whether I let the Quadscan autoselect source and DSP processing, or whether I manually select either or both.


Any ideas?


Dan
 

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Dan, I'm not familiar with your projector, but it sounds like the kind of "rippling" that comes when a DLP's internal scaler (i.e., crappy piece of junk) is used. Are you sure the signal is being processed by the Quadscan? If you're sure of that, do you have the Quadscan's output set to the native resolution of the panel?


By "visibly wavy" do you mean kind of a heat wave ripple effect? I have a CRT projector, but I remember very vividly seeing this effect with internal DLP scalers.


David Forbes
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
David, yes that's it exactly. A kind of "heat wave ripple" on vertical pans.


I have the Quadscan set to output XGA (I think). In cruising through the menus I see the horizontal sync frequency is at 48.2, the vertical is at 59.8.


Dan


[This message has been edited by DanHouck (edited 09-04-2001).]
 

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Dan, I haven't seen that one yet. Messing with those sync frequencies scares the heck out of me too. The only times I ever fooled with them, I screwed up the picture. I got very badly burned.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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If your Panasonic DVD has the kind of processing electronics the RP91 does, and you have the "virus" problem I mentioned in the other thread, some really ugly things can happen.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Joe:

I'm assuming you're inputting an interlaced signal from your RP91 to your Quadscan via component. You have your Quadscan set to output XGA. You're inputting through "computer 1". When you pull down the menu bar next to "computer" it reads only XGA1 and XGA6. Correct?


But are "XGA1" and "XGA6" actually video processing modes of the Boxlight and thus I am NOT bypassing the internal scaler? That would explain the problems.


When you pull down the computer 1 screen what numbers for H sync and V sync are in the current mode box?


The RV80 and RP91 shouldn't be that dissimilar when outputting interlaced. So when you play Gladiator you should see this heat wave effect on vertical pans. It is really noticeable and there are a lot of vertical pans in this movie.


If your set up is as I described above, it is nearly identical to mine. So we should be seeing the same thing unless my projector is set up wrong or my Quadscan is faulty. Is it possible some how that I am not bypassing the crappy scaler in the projector?


I'm ruling out the DVD player at this point because I am getting the identical motion artifact with the RV80 that I did with the old Toshiba.


Thanks.


Dan


[This message has been edited by DanHouck (edited 09-04-2001).]
 

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I just remembered! A similar thing happened to me when I had my DVD player set to "letterbox" so that it processed the anamorphic material into letterbox format BEFORE it went to the projector (or QSE in your case). When you do this, the QSE is receiving low res letterboxed stuff and has fewer lines of resolution to work with and has no anamorphic work to do. The horizontal lines seem to jump on vertical pans. Set your DVD to ouput to a 16:9 display device so it will send all the info skinny faced, and it will rely on your display processing to do the anamorphic squeeze (which your QSE will do). I think I may be onto something here.


It's kind of counter-intuitive to set the DVD to send to a 16:9 display, because you have a 4:3 chip in the projector. But to send ALL the anamorphically stretched info out of your DVD, you have to convince it that your display can squeeze it back down, and it thinks only widescreen TV's can do that. So you have to tell it you have one. That way the QSE will do the squeese for you and it will have a lot more info to squeeze. When I learned this, my anamorphic stuff leaped into a new dimension.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."


[This message has been edited by JHouse (edited 09-04-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Do you mean I tell the DVD player that the DISPLAY is 16:9, and then tell the Quadscan the DISPLAY is 4:3 and the Quadscan will output the right picture? In other words, at the DVD player, I set TV aspect to 16:9?


Dan

 

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I think that's right on the QSE IF you have a 4:3 screen. But you have a 16:9 so you might have to tell the Quadscan you have a 16:9, so that you can use the QSE trigger on the bottom of the remote to watch 4:3 in your screen and blow up REAL letterbox stuff to fill your screen. Let me know what happens.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Joe:

You're a bloody genius--well almost! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Here's what I had to do. I set the DVD player to 16:9. The Quadscan to 4:3. The vertical motion artifacts are gone! BUT, the picture is stretched even with the Quad set to 4:3. The picture is 16:9 but the movie is 2.35:1.


SO, I ventured into the computer setup screen, expanded version and set the vertical height back to the right aspect ratio. Then I saved this as Mode 1. Perfect picture, incredibly sharp! You're right, there's a lot more detail there now.


I'll have to try it with a non-anamorphic disk. You know, this projector is really flexible. Using these shrink modes it looks like I could get whatever ratios I need to use a Panamorph (you know, the one that STILL hasn't been delivered).


Thanks for your help, buddy!


Dan
 

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Dan, I don't have a Quadscan either, but do have a CrystalImage scaler, which uses the same chipset. The Quadscan should be able to do aspect ratio control for you. Have you tried setting BOTH your DVD player and Quadscan to 16x9? Then you should just be able to use the Quadscan to switch between anamorphic, standard letterbox, or 4x3.


I take it you have a 4x3 screen? What is your primary viewing material? If you watch mostly DVDs with only a little 4x3 TV thrown in, I would strongly suggest you get or make a 16x9 screen.


David Forbes
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
David:


Setting the Quadscan to 16:9 results in a smaller squeezed picture in the middle of the screen.


This new "mode 1" setting I came up with will probably be needed for all Anamorphic disks. Now when I put "Toy Story" in I had to go back to the XGA1 setting on the projector to get the right aspect ratio. But I didn't have to change either the DVD player or the Quadscan.


Important thing is the horizontal problem is solved and the picture quality is awesome. Now that I have put that new setting in my projector, it will probably require switching between it and the standard, unsqueezed XGA1 input. No big deal.


I watch enough 4:3 stuff that I want the flexibility of the 4:3 screen. Had I known this projector could do all these neat squeezes, I probably would have gone for 16:9 and squeezed 4:3 material in a custom setting. But since I spent $1700 on this screen I'm not changing it any time soon.


Dan
 

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Okay, Dan something is screwy, because I don't have to do that. I'll recheck my settings and experiment as if I had a 16:9 screen and tell you what I find. BTW, thanks for petting me a little. I've been a little cranky lately. Sorry to all.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Joe, it could just be your RP91 handles it different than the RV80. In any case, it works like a charm and I really appreciate your posting without which I never would have figured this out.


Dan
 

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No problem. My pleasure. Now, I played like I had a 16:9 screen and set the QSE to 16:9 on the "output" (Its still on XGA output on some other parameter). That way, everything stays in the 16:9 screen. The trigger on the remote then gives you three choices. 1) put the 4:3 in the middle, between black bars, 2) crop the top and bottom of the 4:3 to make it as wide as the screen (which blows up real letterbox to fill the screen rather than having bars on both the sides and the top and bottom) and 3) a lateral stretch which puts anamorphic in the proper config. Works great.


FYI on "Computer 1" (yea, it's XGA 1) my H-sync is 48.2 and V-sync is 59.8. Sounds pretty precise to me. I have no idea how they got that way, but I'm not touching them.


On the "Image" screen of the projector, Fine Sync says 45 and Total Dots is 1344. Not a clue. I'm leaving it.


But I have now settled on the Red drive at 32, Green at 23(wow that seem low, but Jaron has me scared of green shadows) and Blue at 31.


I use the RP91 with the sharpness all the way down to -6 and the Gamma near the top at +4.


Hey and thanks for the Auto source tip. I read all the hype about losing the ability to individually adjust sources for contrast, brightness, sat and hue and forgot I adjusted the projector so I was using the QSE defaults anyway. Doh! So now Auto just keeps me from having to scroll through 7 inputs to change sources and it looks just the same, which of course, is perfect.


I think the picture really is perfect. I'm getting a little misty now.


Good Luck.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."


[This message has been edited by JHouse (edited 09-05-2001).]


[This message has been edited by JHouse (edited 09-05-2001).]
 

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Dan, I just read on another thread that you have a 4:3 screen. That means yours should be set up exactly like mine. So that makes me think that you have been messing with the input and output "Size" and "Position" on the QSE and maybe even the position on the projector. Get your test pattern back out and go back to default on the QSE and the Projector and Size and position on the projector first, then the Input position of the QSE and then the Output position of the QSE. My 4:3 always hits perfectly, whether its DVD or DSS. The trigger on the QSE remote lets me go between normal full screen 4:3 and anamorphic squeeze perfectly, on any aspect ratio of anamorphic disk, with no further adjustment required.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Joe:

I haven't touched output size or position on the QSE and I haven't changed position on the projector. I did set up that custom mode to squeeze the output of the QSE back to the proper size. I need it only for anamorphic widescreen. Otherwise, I just specify XGA1 as you do.


I am thinking this may have something to do with the difference between the RV80 and the RP91. It's the only thing I can think of that is different between our two setups.


Have a little fun playing with the custom settings that are available on the "PC Adjust" menus. Just don't save them and they go away when you leave the menu.


Between those and the flexibility of the color, brightness contrast and sharpness settings, it's pretty easy to get this projector to do what you want it to. We love it!


Thanks again for all your help. Finally, last night we were able to WATCH THE MOVIE not fiddle with the settings. My wife just sat there and said wow! about 3 or 4 times.


Dan

 

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It can't be the DVD. DVD's are interleced in 4:3 format. If they also happen to be anamorphic, they us the 4:3 area to vertically stretch the picture to fill the 4:3 area. If you tell your projector to just send it out the way it is (i.e. you tell it you have a 16:9 display, then you get a 4:3 skinny face (vertically stretched) picture. This is where I'm a little less confident: if it is 235:1 then it is actually an anamorphic stretch of a letterboxed picture, so that when it gets the normal anamorphic reverse squeese it is 235:1 rather than 16:9. The proof of this is that you will note that on 235:1 DVD's there are small black bars above and below the picture which only extend to where the 16:9 picture would be. I've noticed that the smaller bars next to the 235:1 picture aren't usually as black as the larger bars that define the 16:9 area. To me this means they did a squeeze of some black bars that are on the DVD and that these are different than the area of the panels on the display which go black for 16:9 material.


Does anyone know what I'm talking about?


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Joe:


DUH! This is so simple you're gonna laugh your a** off! You have to tell the Quadscan it is receiving a 16:9 input! You then tell it to put out 4:3 XGA. It does it. Everything else is left set to defaults. DUH! Then you just leave the projector set on XGA1. DUH!!


But hey it gave me the opportunity to find this really neat feature on the projector. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Beside that, I caused you to try all manner of stuff trying to duplicate it. Your own fault anyway. You should have realized you were dealing with a world-class HT dummy and said, HEY STUPID SET THE QSE INPUT TO 16:9! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Dan
 
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