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Discussion Starter #1
Or do I need to keep working?




Right around 85hz to 120hz there was a big hole that why all the paddles are wadded up there and it's still alittle kinky. The best I can tell every thing looks to be within + or - 3db's. what do you guys think. Any one got any more setup tips?


BTW I was setting at angle when I took the picture that's why the right side seems to slope down so much

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that is a nice, flat response...but you may be overdriving your sub by bumping the levels of your nulls


any chance of getting the same results by lowering the peaks and being a little more conservative with null treatment?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If by over driving the sub you mean pushing the sub to hard, I don't think that will be a problem, its an SVS PB12-plus/2 with the amp not quite 1/3 of the way up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerman3732 /forum/post/14271824


If by over driving the sub you mean pushing the sub to hard, I don't think that will be a problem, its an SVS PB12-plus/2 with the amp not quite 1/3 of the way up.



that svs is a fine sub...built like a tank


still, headroom is king...as is, when pushed hard, your sub is more likely to reach its limits (built in limiter) before a sub that has been treated addressing peaks as opposed to nulls...
 

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The reason you're having to max out the sliders in that 85-100hz range is likely because your sub is badly out of phase with your mains. That out of phase condition is causing a large dip (not a null) in the crossover region. If you can correct the phase, then you'll get a smoother response in that area without needing to boost with the SMS.



Tim
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvalNut /forum/post/14272306


The reason you're having to max out the sliders in that 85-100hz range is likely because your sub is badly out of phase with your mains. That out of phase condition is causing a large dip (not a null) in the crossover region. If you can correct the phase, then you'll get a smoother response in that area without needing to boost with the SMS.



Tim

And that's probably the reason why the dip is responding to eq...
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by OvalNut /forum/post/14272306


The reason you're having to max out the sliders in that 85-100hz range is likely because your sub is badly out of phase with your mains. That out of phase condition is causing a large dip (not a null) in the crossover region. If you can correct the phase, then you'll get a smoother response in that area without needing to boost with the SMS.



Tim

That's what I thought when I stated trying to smooth out the null, and I have adjusted the phase some , its set a 60 now, but when I tried different x- setting on the mains and the sub the null always stayed right around 85hz to 120hz even with both set at 125hz the null stayed in the same spot, so that's got me thinking its the room that's causing the hole.
 

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You CANNOT effectively smooth out a null with equalization, you need to move the sub, or move your listening position to compensate. By stacking the parametric EQ in that null frequency zone, your sub amplifier is going to be spending possibly hundreds (or more) of watts at the "bad" frequency just so the response is good enough to satisfy the microphone and your ear in the listening position. That costs you valuable headroom, and such high power applied at such a narrow frequency band might slip past the current limiter and damage your woofer and/or amplifier. When you increase or decrease the overall amplifier volume, you're probably going to find that your 85Hz/120Hz dips sink and fall at a different rate than the rest of the curve, because the room itself is working against you.


Fix the null, don't overcompensate for it.


If you have a receiver with "Standing Wave" compensation, make sure the receiver doesn't have a cut at the 80Hz and 120Hz frequencies that you're adding back in with the SMS-1.


Greg
 

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I've got the Outlaw guide for the SMS-1, but I admit I still don't understand entirely what they mean when they talk about stacking the frequencies. I got paranoid when I was doing the manual EQ and chickened out
Is there an even MORE idiot-proof guide (like, do I need to start with figuring out the phase adjustment first, and how...) or am I going to just have to play with it more? I've got the SVS 13 Ultra tuned to 15hz, but my plot before any EQ looks like a truly hideous roller coaster.
 

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I was just messing with my SMS-1 and have a question for those in the know...


I have a lot of hedroom with my new setup which is a 12/2 Ultra and a PB13 Ultra working together in a 12x17 room. Considering I have a good amount of headroom, is there any problem with doing a 3db bump at 3 spots in the EQ (these are not stacked)?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtwstr /forum/post/14276296


I've got the Outlaw guide for the SMS-1, but I admit I still don't understand entirely what they mean when they talk about stacking the frequencies.

Quite simply put, "stacking" the frequencies means moving the parametric EQ frequency sliders so close together that you're essentially creating one really big boost. What you got going on between 85Hz and 100Hz, and 28Hz and about 43 Hz would be consider "stacking" - you got 4 sliders in the space designed for 1 or 2.


Ideally, the sliders should be pretty evenly spaced. If you need more than +6dB boost or -12dB cut without moving the sliders together, you have a room, placement and/or crossover issue that needs to be addressed FIRST.


Greg
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe /forum/post/14276364


I have a lot of hedroom with my new setup which is a 12/2 Ultra and a PB13 Ultra working together in a 12x17 room. Considering I have a good amount of headroom, is there any problem with doing a 3db bump at 3 spots in the EQ (these are not stacked)?

Seems reasonable to me. The ranges go from +6dB to -12dB and as long as you're not stacking the frequencies, you should be able to make full use of the entire range available.


This thread has me wanting to snap a picture of my SMS-1 settings just for comparison sake.


Greg
 

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Thanks, that's not my plot above but I can sympathize... mine would look about that bad
I just wish there was more of a "If you see this, then try adjusting this first" kind of deal. I still don't understand phase, and have just sort of left it at zero by default.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Alright, here's my second go at this. Since moving this big ass sub from where it is now isn't an option, I tried a couple of other things, First I plugged two ports on my SVS and tuned it down to 16hz, not really to help the null just because it makes me happy
. Second I added a second smaller sub a 12'' Infinity, I can't remember the model number, too see if that would help any. Then I tried bringing down the other frequencies to match the null and raised the volume on the SMS-1 to match my receiver, to get the head room many of you speak of and to keep from stacking the frequencies and here is what I came up with.




Sorry for the blurry image.
 

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^^Looks great to me
That seems much better in my humble opinion as you are not doing any stacking and have achieved the same result.


I have a question though....I also did this same type setup as the post above when I was running just one sub in which I cut the hell out of my peaks so they came down to the nulled area then boosted the hell out of the SMS-1 master volume to get the sub output calibrated level with the mains...my question is how is this any dif in stress level on the driver/amp as opposed to just boosting the problem areas? It seems to me if you cut everything way down to the lowest area of the freq response and have to boost the hell out of the SMS-1 volume it would be no dif as far as stress levels on the amp/driver compared to just boosting the problem areas and leaving the SMS-1 volume lower. Either way you are boosting the problem areas you are just going about it by 2 dif methods, but I dont realy see how one would be any less stressfull on the amp/driver than the other, assuming of course you are not doing extreme stacking.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerman3732 /forum/post/14279494


Alright, here's my second go at this. Since moving this big ass sub from where it is now isn't an option, I tried a couple of other things, First I plugged two ports on my SVS and tuned it down to 16hz, not really to help the null just because it makes me happy
. Second I added a second smaller sub a 12'' Infinity, I can't remember the model number, too see if that would help any. Then I tried bringing down the other frequencies to match the null and raised the volume on the SMS-1 to match my receiver, to get the head room many of you speak of and to keep from stacking the frequencies and here is what I came up with.




Sorry for the blurry image.


impressive!


will it be possible for you to make a sketch of layout - outline of the room, placements of speakers/subs?


also how did set the volume and xover on the individual sub?


did you point the sms-1 mic towards the ceiling or forward?
 

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That's very nice. Just beware that at 16hz tune with a /2 type sub, you're keeping that sub severely underported with just the one port open. At higher volumes, you'll likely hear port noise due to the air velocity through the single port. Also, some added distortion in the lowest frequencies would be likely due to the driver(s) having to work harder since the tuning point is so low. That type of driver distortion manifests itself as a somewhat fatiguing sound over the course of time.


Anyway, that is definitely much better. Please do post back with your listening impressions.



Tim
 
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