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I'm scheduled to have my Pioneer Elite 710HD ISFed tommorrow, and have read (and been told by the guy who is going to do it) that my picture will be a bit darker. He estimated about 10% darker.


First, why does ISFing the TV make the picture darker?


Next, I am a little worried because it seems like some things that are on are already a little too dark, and it seems like 10% darker and it will be hard to see them. Is the Pioneer Elite maybe already closer calibrated than some of the other sets, and thus it is already somewhat darker and after he ISFs it maybe it won't be much darker? Or is it just the brighter things that aren't quite as bright? Or are my fears true that I won't be able to see some things once I have this done?


Thanks.


Sean Dudley
 

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Greetings


Okay ... here's the deal. If you use AVIA or VE on your set already ... it won't get any darker.


The only thing a standard ISF grayscale calibration gets you is a proper grayscale (or close to it). The process should also include setting the user controls via the service menu or on the front panel.


Of course a full calibration goes well beyond the standard ISF offerings.


Regards


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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
 

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Another point of view on the ISF vs Brightness issue...


Most TV's are factory shipped with the contrast and brightness levels set way too high. %90 of consumers don't know anything about how or why to make any adjustments to these settings and therefore don't. This is slowly changing, but mostly on the higher-end sets that are being purchased by a more knowledgeable consumer base; IE: those that know better.


ISF setup corrects the overblown factory settings.


The reason factories do this "overblown" setup is to make their TV's look brighter in a bright (florescent lighting) salesfloor. Also, with a bunch of TV's sitting side by side, the dimmer TV's are initially overlooked by "Joe Sixpack". People that have watched improperly setup TV's for years are used to seeing a washed-out picture and think that a washed-out picture is the way the image is supposed to look.


You will "loose" some picture info on a correctly adjusted TV because the blacks are truly black instead of a light grey. (or even a dark grey) You will "see" objects/people in the shadows that you shouldn't and wouldn't see in real life, on the TV that is not setup correctly. This may lead people to think that the correct TV is too dark and they are losing some of the picture. This is not true.


When the picture is adjusted properly, you get a much more 3D picture. This is partly due to the apparent depth (or perceived depth) because the backgrounds are normally darker than the foreground and/or there is a greater "dynamic" range between light and dark areas of the picture, just like in real life. In a "washed-out" picture, the dark areas and the light areas look much more similar and therefore not as life-like.


Give yourself time to "adjust" to the dimmer (but more correct) ISF'ed image and you will begin to understand just how good the proper image is.


I would see if you can save both the old settings and the ISF'ed settings in different user memories so you can easily switch back and forth. The difference will astonish you, although your set may be a lot closer to correct than most TV's and the difference won't be quite so stunning.


Scott


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The greatest oxymoron of all time is: "The SIMPLE Cell"

-Scott Horton


[This message has been edited by shorton (edited 08-22-2001).]


[This message has been edited by shorton (edited 08-22-2001).]
 

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Oh Boy! I'm just a little concerned here and I'll tell you why. The ISF tech that you talked to should have explained to you exactly what he meant by "darker". Pretty much all sets coming out of the factory have their brightness levels pumped up way too high. He will measure your sets' level and lower it to the theoretical equivalent of daylight at noon, which equates to 6500 degrees on the Kelvin Scale. Some sets can come from the factory as high as 20,000 on the Kelvin Scale. Some of the other things they do is set convergence, geometry, disconnect SVM, manual/electronic focus (if needed).


What this all translates down to is your brightness level will probably be brought down to 6500. However!, you are the Captain of this ship and if you don't like that low a setting, you have every right to ask him to raise it to a level suitable for you. Personally, I prefer a set that runs a just a bit higher than 6500, but that's just my preference.


My only concern here is that your tech. rep. really should have explained a good deal of this to you and not used terms like "darken it 10 percent", without ever having seen your set! You will find there are ISF techs. of varying levels of experience and ability. Some exclusively work on only certain sets. Make sure your tech. is well trained on a Pioneer Elite before you even let him in the house!


Ask for references for other similar sets he has done ... see if you can view any of them. You can even post again and ask the opinions of those who have used him in the past. There is another excellent forum: www.***************.com , that has a special ISF section where folks like yourself post and ask other individuals what experience they have had with particular ISF techs! He may well be very good, but if he told you right off the bat that your set would be lowered 10 percent without having even seen your set . . . I'd be looking elsewhere.
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COBRA


. . . Unleash the Hounds of Hell . . .
 

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True
 

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Sean,


I have to agree with Dark C. You should call this ISF tech and ask him some questions first. What type of sets does he do? Does he have training on your type of set? What type of equipment is he going to use (signal generator, etc...). Also dont be afraid to ask for references. I also have a pioneer elite and I am waiting another month until a well reguarded ISF tech is comes to my area (tour). Also get the AVIA dvd and try adjusting the set your self first. Youll find what you learn from doing it yourself will help you better understand (de mystify) what the ISF tech is doing.



John
 

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I had my Sony kdp65xbr2 ISF'd.When I heard about

being able to see depth and have a 3d feel, I was skeptical- until I saw the results - and yes, with the set properly adjusted you will "lose" some of the information in the darker images that you werent meant to see by the film director if you saw the film in a theater. Check that out next time you see a film in a theater. The creepy scenes with the bodies suspended on wires in the movie "the cell" are a great example of the 3d effect. Here's one tip- in my case I initially told the ISF I kept a low wattage lamp on in the viewing room since I didnt like the eye fatigue I experienced when the room was totally dark. We viewed with the set adjusted for the light on, and then adjusted for the light off, and the image popped into 3d much more in the unlit room on my set- so I obtained a backlight from cinemaquest to provide some light bias in the room without washing out the screen and this made a big difference- your experience may differ, but keep the option in mind and good luck-
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cobra
Pretty much all sets coming out of the factory have their brightness levels pumped up way too high. He will measure your sets' level and lower it to the theoretical equivalent of daylight at noon, which equates to 6500 degrees on the Kelvin Scale[/B][/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
It's the contrast control on the TV that controls brightness. The brightness control actually controls black level. It's a high contrast setting that produces the bright picture and prematurely ages the CRT, not the brightness.


You also don't understand color temperature. It has almost nothing to do with brightness. Color temperature is a measure of the spectral characteristics of a light source. 6500 degrees K is a warm (reddish) white, while 9500 is a cool (bluish) white. You can have a nice warm 6500 degree K white point, while still having your contrast set way too high, with too bright of a picture.


-Jonathan
 

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jhue is right... it's the CONTRAST that's set way too high in the factory, not the brightness. Fact is, you may even have to boost your brightness a bit after lowering your contrast. That's ok though... it's the dreaded contrast you have to worry about.
 

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This is what I tell the ISF class when I tech it and I tell it to my customers.


The TV can out put less light when you are done with the calibration (Less lumens). The factories all sell TVs that are bright that is the number one selling point. Unfortunately Bright means that the TV is running over it linear operating range. It is giving you a “distorted†picture.

This is like selling an audio system on just one parameter, how loud it goes. Your audio system will go very loud, but after a certain point the speakers start clipping and it sounds bad. The TV manufacturers sell their TVs clipping. It is bright but distorted. A proper ISF calibration brings the TV back into its linear operating range and ads “fidelity†to the picture. Also after calibration it is very possible that the TV will have a better contrast ratio after the black (brightness control on the front panel) level is set correctly.


Hey Paul :D
 
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