It looks like I'm staying HD....

1778 Views 13 Replies 10 Participants Last post by The Doctor, Jan 20, 2008

lwt42

Discussion Starter · Jan 19, 2008

... because I'm not sure either camp quite "gets it."

I bought my HD-D2 at Costco, so it can be returned for the full price I paid, so the economics are simple, I'm safe.

I don't have a big investment in HD DVDs. I have three (counting Blade Runner) and if I jump formats, I probably wouldn't repurchase all of them.

If I never get another HD DVD, I've got a stunningly good upconverting player in the HD-D2.

According to what I've read in the Blu-Ray player section, there is a confusing array of platforms and options, (Platform 1.0, 1.1, 20, with our without BD-Live, etc.) and it is unclear what one gains or loses at each level.

For me, it really comes down to this. If I take two identical disks, one SD, and one HD, and I play them on the HD-D2, there is a difference, but it's not much.

... and for most movies, the visuals just aren't that rich -- not enough to matter, that is.

Blu-Ray made a big mistake by not setting one platform and living with it. I don't see that I can buy a player with any confidence that I'll get what I want, and they're all inferior to the HD-A2 when it comes to upconverted SD.

.... or so it seems.

Toshiba made a big mistake by making players that are so incredibly good upconverting SD that there is no reason to re-buy your movies. If I buy SD, I can play it on my laptop, on Mom's player, etc. HD movies stay home.

So I bought four movies this week -- in SD.

I think the market has spoken, and I think when the format war is over, both sides will learn that HD just isn't high enough to drive the migration away from SD.

Blu-Ray and HD DVD are so busy targeting each other that they're missing that.

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dazed_n_confuzed

· #2 · Jan 19, 2008

I too am somewhat in your boat. I bought a A20 from ebay for a very good price. Some are "jumping ship" because of the fact many think HD-DVD is dead and that may very well be the case (I hope not) but even if it is I still have options.

The A20 is a very good upconverter and I will buy a few HD-DVD but no matter what I still will have a player that allows me to play DVD's on any TV I have in the house and a HD-DVD player that allows me to play Hi Def on my plasma. For me it is a win-win I have lost absolutely nothing in my purchase.

I do think you are right in that Toshiba has missed the boat regarding SD vs. HD material. They should market their HD-DVD players as upconverters that as a bonus play HD-DVD material. Although they are very good at playing SD I do see a distinct difference between HD-DVD and SD though. That is just me.

dazed

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tomjc

· #3 · Jan 19, 2008

performance is excellent. Far better than I expected. You are correct in while not HD the SD is very close on many titles. If the titles I wish to watch are BD only then I will rent or buy the SD versions. The real issue is the failure of both sides to work towards replacing SD DVD with the HD formats. If BD wins prices will stay high on hardware and software. BlueRay and HD-DVD will continue to be niche market.

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iamthehunter

· #4 · Jan 19, 2008

in the same boat..bought a 360 elite w/ add-on for Christmas because i wanted to compare hd-dvd to sd upconverted Oppo= low $ investment...

my experience w/ B&M's- BR players (during the holidays) were marketed better in the stores...hd-dvd players stuck on shelves in the box out of high flow areas. media seemed to be close to equal but "title" availability was (and still is) poor to say the least. i wanted some christmas titles but polar express was the only one available. had to order grinch; xmas vacation from amazon.

if you moved from non-hd (crt) to hdtv w/ a good upconverting player i again agree with you. sd looks amazingly good on my 60" sony sxrd rptv using oppo player. i purchased (12) sd's during holidays becaused prices were (are) $4 to $10 ea.

i also bought a samsung 4069 lcd which is now connected to an old sony non-upconverting dvd player...and sd's look poor. i need a good upconverting player and the toshiba a30 is the ticket. the way i look at it, upconverting sd's is first...hd is second, due to the fw.

have considered myself to be format neutral but the recent warner announcement pissed me off to BR. why? the players in the bm's are sub-par in comparison to hd-dvd and cost $200 bucks more...its a real stretch to believe the "concerned about the consumer statement" when 1.1 players are 2 & 3 times more expensive. if i could go to BB today and buy a bdp-500s for $200...i would go BR. in fact, i would buy a ps3 for $299.

IMHO...MS saying it would support BR if thats what the consumer wants was more damaging than the warner announcement.

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willyd

· #5 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthehunter /forum/post/12867353

in the same boat..bought a 360 elite w/ add-on for Christmas because i wanted to compare hd-dvd to sd upconverted Oppo= low $ investment...

my experience w/ B&M's- BR players (during the holidays) were marketed better in the stores...hd-dvd players stuck on shelves in the box out of high flow areas. media seemed to be close to equal but "title" availability was (and still is) poor to say the least. i wanted some christmas titles but polar express was the only one available. had to order grinch; xmas vacation from amazon.

if you moved from non-hd (crt) to hdtv w/ a good upconverting player i again agree with you. sd looks amazingly good on my 60" sony sxrd rptv using oppo player. i purchased (12) sd's during holidays becaused prices were (are) $4 to $10 ea.

i also bought a samsung 4069 lcd which is now connected to an old sony non-upconverting dvd player...and sd's look poor. i need a good upconverting player and the toshiba a30 is the ticket. the way i look at it, upconverting sd's is first...hd is second, due to the fw.

have considered myself to be format neutral but the recent warner announcement pissed me off to BR. why? the players in the bm's are sub-par in comparison to hd-dvd and cost $200 bucks more...its a real stretch to believe the "concerned about the consumer statement" when 1.1 players are 2 & 3 times more expensive. if i could go to BB today and buy a bdp-500s for $200...i would go BR. in fact, i would buy a ps3 for $299.

IMHO...MS saying it would support BR if thats what the consumer wants was more damaging than the warner announcement.

you can get a ps3 for $299 at sonystyle.com if you get a credit card. you pay for a $399 ps3 on the credit card, you get 12 months no interest financing on the ps3 purchase, and you get a $100 statement credit within 3 months.

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Droid6

· #6 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyd /forum/post/12867507

you can get a ps3 for $299 at sonystyle.com if you get a credit card.

Get a SONY credit card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyd /forum/post/12867507

you pay for a $399 ps3 on the credit card, you get 12 months no interest financing on the ps3 purchase, and you get a $100 statement credit within 3 months.

I would never recommend to someone to open a new line of credit just to save $100 on videogame system.

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lwt42

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed_n_confuzed /forum/post/12866861

I do think you are right in that Toshiba has missed the boat regarding SD vs. HD material. They should market their HD-DVD players as upconverters that as a bonus play HD-DVD material. Although they are very good at playing SD I do see a distinct difference between HD-DVD and SD though. That is just me.

dazed

The other part of that point, however, is that most movies really aren't that "dense" visually. Seriously.

... and for the most part, the set decoration is just that, decoration, with the story in the foreground.

Others, like "Hitch" or "Happy Gilmore" aren't even watchable on SD, I can't being to imagine them on HD.

The only one I can think of is Blade Runner, and I've got it on HD DVD.

This is the flaw: if the movie looks really, really good upconverted from SD, and adding more resolution won't make that much difference, then who cares?

HD DVD (and Toshiba) missed that. If what I've read is correct, Blu-Ray players don't upconvert as well, so Blu-Ray missed that -- add the platform confusion, and maybe I'm good to go right here.

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jb0072007

· #8 · Jan 19, 2008

Well I agree with most of you as well. The newer movies look almost as good upconverted as their HD counter part. The sound is better, the detail and colors too on HD but not that much (not worth paying $20 to replace a SD for). I see big differences in some older movies in HD (The Shining) compared to their upconverted SD. Those are the movies that I do buy and replace.

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lwt42

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyd /forum/post/12867507

you can get a ps3 for $299 at sonystyle.com if you get a credit card. you pay for a $399 ps3 on the credit card, you get 12 months no interest financing on the ps3 purchase, and you get a $100 statement credit within 3 months.

Which misses my point: my HD-D2 is a great upconverting SD DVD player, and upconverted SD looks good enough for the vast majority of movies.

HiDef is beautiful, I really enjoy Blade Runner in HiDef.

When I watch Heist, or Swordfish, or Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, I can't say that HiDef would change the experience in any substantive way.

Sometimes, good enough really is.

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webphilosopher

· #10 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwt42 /forum/post/12868996

Which misses my point: my HD-D2 is a great upconverting SD DVD player, and upconverted SD looks good enough for the vast majority of movies.

HiDef is beautiful, I really enjoy Blade Runner in HiDef.

When I watch Heist, or Swordfish, or Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, I can't say that HiDef would change the experience in any substantive way.

Sometimes, good enough really is.

One reason that Toshiba made HD DVD players that upconvert so well is that it was never the intention of Toshiba or the DVD Forum, which supports DVD AND HD DVD, to replace DVD completely. Their intention was to introduce an HD standard that built upon DVD and could coexist with it quite well (including disk replication). Toshiba will continue to get royalties for DVD patents, no matter what happens to HD DVD. Sony needs to replace DVD in order to gain a large share of HDM royalties, since Sony gets little financial return from DVD. The legendary and award-winning XA2 is a perfect example of Toshiba's continuing support of DVD. Toshiba wins, even if HD DVD loses, as long as DVD has dominance. That, in my opinion will be a very, very long time, especially since it is not feasible to replace the 80,000+ movies in DVD with BD or HD DVD versions. In fact, movie-lovers have to keep their VHS players as well, since many movies never made it from VHS to DVD. So an excellent upconverting player is essential for those who cherish movies not likely to come to HDM any time soon.

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chili555

· #11 · Jan 20, 2008

Quote:
I would never recommend to someone to open a new line of credit just to save $100 on videogame system.

I think this statement is too general to be useful to everyone. Never say never.

If you are swimming in debt you can hardly handle, you certainly shouldn't take on more debt for something as frivolous as a PS3. Nothing to see here; move along.

If your debt is pretty much in line and you generally pay off all your credit cards at the end of the month, with a few slips, and then, because you have $299 in your checking account (tax refund? year-end bonus? brother-in-law finally paid back some money he borrowed) and you pay off the entire Sony credit card amount immediately, then it will probably neither help or hurt.

If you have no credit card debt, you get the credit card, pay off the purchase in eleven payments, so as to never incur interest, it will probably help your credit rating.

There are a great number of variables to make a absolute judgment. Use credit wisely. Always wear safety glasses.

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The Doctor

· #12 · Jan 20, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by webphilosopher /forum/post/12870047

One reason that Toshiba made HD DVD players that upconvert so well is that it was never the intention of Toshiba or the DVD Forum, which supports DVD AND HD DVD, to replace DVD completely. Their intention was to introduce an HD standard that built upon DVD and could coexist with it quite well (including disk replication). Toshiba will continue to get royalties for DVD patents, no matter what happens to HD DVD. Sony needs to replace DVD in order to gain a large share of HDM royalties, since Sony gets little financial return from DVD. The legendary and award-winning XA2 is a perfect example of Toshiba's continuing support of DVD. Toshiba wins, even if HD DVD loses, as long as DVD has dominance. That, in my opinion will be a very, very long time, especially since it is not feasible to replace the 80,000+ movies in DVD with BD or HD DVD versions. In fact, movie-lovers have to keep their VHS players as well, since many movies never made it from VHS to DVD. So an excellent upconverting player is essential for those who cherish movies not likely to come to HDM any time soon.

This has been part of HD DVD game plan all along. They are stressing it more now, but I've seen TV electronic shows that profiled the HD players with the emphasis on upconverter. This was back then the A2_ series was new.

Personally I think this is a better plan to replace DVD and introduce HDM, I do not see Blu as being in a strong position to foist HDM in to the limelight.

What does irritate me is the attempt to press gang the lot of us in to service of HDM. Some act like its a fabergé egg, so precious, so fragile and we shouldn't question it because it is such a noble idea that if it's questioned too hard it will dissaprear like the wisps of a dream.

Bah! If it's that fragile then it will never become anything more the LD series 2. Partly why I think Toshiba has the better plan for integration, making it a feature of DVD is brilliant.

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iamthehunter

· #13 · Jan 20, 2008

so..again...if a3/a30/a35 do a good/better/best upconversion of sd, as well as hd-dvd; why in the hell are they NOT displayed better in B&M's? i was in BB yesterday and it took 15 minutes to find the a30's...stacked on the end of a poorly lit aisle. sony and samsung BR's take the "top" slot on display with 24p lcd's.

hd-dvd marketing is and has been terrible..i'm going to buy the a30 tomorrow but how many peeps walk into a B&M and buy non-hd upconverters for +$200 when they could have hd-dvd as well?

hd-dvd burners for pc is also another "missed" opportunity. BR has several internal's for pc that read hd-dvd and burn BR.

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The Doctor

· #14 · Jan 20, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by chili555 /forum/post/12870285

I think this statement is too general to be useful to everyone. Never say never.

If you are swimming in debt you can hardly handle, you certainly shouldn't take on more debt for something as frivolous as a PS3. Nothing to see here; move along.

If your debt is pretty much in line and you generally pay off all your credit cards at the end of the month, with a few slips, and then, because you have $299 in your checking account (tax refund? year-end bonus? brother-in-law finally paid back some money he borrowed) and you pay off the entire Sony credit card amount immediately, then it will probably neither help or hurt.

If you have no credit card debt, you get the credit card, pay off the purchase in eleven payments, so as to never incur interest, it will probably help your credit rating.

There are a great number of variables to make a absolute judgment. Use credit wisely. Always wear safety glasses.

I concur for the most part.

To me it is disingenuous to rabidly encourage someone to take on a new Dept just to get a player. Applying for Sony credit to get Sony player is a catch 22, they get you both ways. If it is going to be payed off quickly then its not really an issue, but sony is offering the discount because they know most will be stuck with a dept that will take years to pay off. Same with amazon gracious credit card offer.

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