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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks, thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate your help greatly.


I recently purchased a brand new system, I've had it for about a month now.


HTR-7063 Yamaha receiver

Definitive Procinema 800 package 4 satellite, sub and pro 1000 centre channel

Monoprice 12 gauge speaker cable & Banana plugs

Monoprice high speed hdmi cables


Everything was working fine until the receiver started shutting off at high volumes, not extremely high, but loud enough. Yesterday I was watching a movie and in one scene when someone slapped another character in the face, it would trip the system. It turns off, and when I turn it back on, I get the message "Check Sp Cables" before the system turns on and works fine again.


I thought it might be the receiver, so I took the orginal back to Best Buy, so I'm now working with a new receiver. After it cut out once again I decided to try my best to isolate the issue. I did not try to isolate the issue on the first receiver.



I've switched the back speakers with the front as they are the same model speaker, and it still tripped. When I leave one of the left or right speakers in the system it trips, however if both are remove it does not.


I plugged the left speaker in using my centre channel cable and it still tripped, however when I plugged the rear surround speakers in they worked and the system did not cut out.The rear speakers have about 30ft of cable through the walls, while the front have about 15ft. This was the only way I could get the specific scene to play with something plugged into the left or right speaker connection.



Some hints that may help you dignose my issue: When I ran the YPAO auto setup it gave me a level error saying my two front surround speakers need to go +10db. This did not happen when I originally setup the system.


Also, it does sound like the front surrounds are very low. Once again, thank you so much for your suggestions.
 

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"Check Sp(eaker) Cables"


I'd double check your front left/right speaker wires and the connection(s) of the wire to the banana plugs. Could be a "short" (one + wire touching the - wire).


Also, check and make sure that your in-wall wiring hasn't been shorted by a nail or screw.


Have extra wire? Test system... run speaker wire to each speaker externally and see what happens. (Doesn't have to be 12 AWG to test)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Ratman,


Thanks for the suggestion. I did use the centre channel wire I had to test the front speakers and got the same result. I suppose I might be the worst at banana plugs ever, but its seems a stretch to think that the front speakers just all of a sudden started shorting like that.



I'll grab some cables and give it a shot tonight. Any other suggestions?
 

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Well, your have 95WPC on the receiver, sensitivity of the speakers are ~89dB. There should not be a problem with tripping the protection mode unless your are listening at ungodly levels.


You may also want to check that the receiver's speaker settings are set to "small" and the x-over is set to at least 100 Hz. If all checks out, try setting the x-over to 120Hz.


Also, I know you said you swapped the rears with front and had the same problem. Instead of physically swapping the speakers, swap the wires with front and rear at the back of the receiver. If problem reverses, it's probably wires/connectors.


Also... eliminate the center wires and speaker completely when testing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hey Ratman,


I have the front speakers set to large, the speaker manual suggested it.


I tested the system with the front speakers & wires connected tothe back surround jack, and I connected the rear surrounds to the front jacks.


It worked fine. Is this for sure a speaker cable issue? As I mentioned previously, I did use the centre channel wire to test the front speakers and I had the same issue. I tried one speaker at a time in the front and it happened.


Also, this didn't happen at first. What changed? What do the three front cables all of a sudden have in common that wrong?
 

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I don't care what the manual might say, those small sat speakers CAN NOT be run full range (large). They are rated to only 57 htz, hardly a frequency associated for full range speakers. That is the first thing you need to change.
 

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In no way should those speakers be set to large.


Set AVR to all channel mode, disconnect all but 1 channel, test, now disconnect that channel and connect next one and test, continue until you have found or ruled out all the wires. If you find one now use a another (test) wire to verify, if it still shuts down its in the AVR (doubtful that 2 AVRs had same problem)


CAUTION: make sure you turn off AVR between changes AND isolate speaker wire ends from each other when laying loose
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I will change them to small. Thanks for the looking into their stats and provinding that advice.


I do not think this should force them to cut out however, also, the rear speakers worked as is when attached to the front speaker jacks at the large setting.


Definitely will get them set to small as you suggested, it won't matter much if I throw the whole thing out the window out of frustration!


Could the HTR-7063 just not work well with what I have? I read positive reviews, and the features were there...but wow this is killing me!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Jackbuzz,


I did isolate each speaker and any of the sattelites connected by 1 of my three short speakers cables to the front L or R jacks would cause a cut out. I changed speakers from front to back etc.


The whole system worked when I connected the back speakers to the front and the rears to the front.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Would the fact the YPAO is telling me that the front surrounds have level errors indicate what the issue is?


It says I need to reduce every speaker between 4 and 8 and increase the 2 front surrounds by 10+.
 

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1) check cables/connectors

2) set all speakers to small

3) make sure subwoofer is set to "on" or "yes"

4) set x-over in receiver to 100Hz or higher


We can go from there.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_967
Would the fact the YPAO is telling me that the front surrounds have level errors indicate what the issue is?


It says I need to reduce every speaker between 4 and 8 and increase the 2 front surrounds by 10+.
+10 is fairly aggressive. After doing what Ratman suggested, have you set all of your channels to +/- 0, and then tried again?
 

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Just for the hell of it, can you remove the banana plugs from the setup? I realize it's very, very slim possibility, but you really want to keep this setup as simple as possible when testing out.


One thing that has me concerned is that you say the speakers are very low. That makes little sense if you have this thing configured correctly. It's almost like you've got the inputs or speakers configured incorrectly and are trying to play the "leaking" audio from another input or output channel. But, I'm assuming you have at least configured the AVR correctly. You do have you main speakers set correctly and on, zone 1 on, zone 2 off, mute off, etc?


The YPAO feedback suggest that you're doing something wrong or your speakers are just bad. Eliminate the speaker as a source by finding one good one and working that through the system. As other have suggested be sure to only make changes to the system with power OFF. Use the one known good speaker to test each channel. Be very sure on how you've wired these things get everything else out of the system (this includes disconnecting all other inputs and outputs, remember keep it simple). Make sure you have the polarity correct, speakers set to small and that crossover is on and set correctly to send low-freq to sub (is the sub working fine?).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I purchased some cheap cable and installed it without the bana plugs. Same issue.


I went out and picked up a micrometer from a local hardware store and the two front speakers showed heavy resistance. I called up crutchfield where I purchased the speakers and they sent me a replacement set.


I hooked them up and bam! YPAO says speakers are all set, no errors whatsoever.


I suppose setting them to large was just too much for them. Once again, thanks to everyone for their help. And just a heads up that Crutchfield has A+ customer service, I highly recommend them.


All the best.
 

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I'm glad Joe got it figured out.



But, someone help me out here...


Shouldn't setting a small speaker to "large" be OK unless you were driving them with some crazy volume? Sure the speaker won't be able to handle those low frequencies but wouldn't that be filtered at the speaker?


I've just never seen this happen, and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff. I'd think that companies would have lots of pissed off customers if this was the case.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D
I'm glad Joe got it figured out.



But, someone help me out here...


Shouldn't setting a small speaker to "large" be OK unless you were driving them with some crazy volume? Sure the speaker won't be able to handle those low frequencies but wouldn't that be filtered at the speaker?


I've just never seen this happen, and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff. I'd think that companies would have lots of pissed off customers if this was the case.
I have two models that are designed for XOs @ 70, 80 htz. And many times I have run them full range with no sub. But they are such that they naturally roll off as they are both sealed mid-bass drivers with acoustical XOs.

Of coarse, when I have done so, I never crank up the amp.


But if a small speaker is ported to help extend the mid-bass, and one wants to run them w/o a sub, that is where one really needs to be careful of not applying too much power.
 

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Seems like the problem is solved but for the future, the receiver has no way of knowing there is something wrong with your speaker cable. It says that because it doesn't like the load it is driving and it is throwing a dart at the board, claiming that the wires may be shorted out as that is the most common consumer mistake.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D /forum/post/20840683


I'm glad Joe got it figured out.



But, someone help me out here...


Shouldn't setting a small speaker to "large" be OK unless you were driving them with some crazy volume? Sure the speaker won't be able to handle those low frequencies but wouldn't that be filtered at the speaker?


I've just never seen this happen, and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff. I'd think that companies would have lots of pissed off customers if this was the case.

Yes, setting the speaker to large or small does relatively little in terms of power consumption or use - at absolute level best it will provide an additional 3 dB of head-room (the crossover points are just too low, if you were crossing over at 5000hz, then all of the claims would be absolutely true).


Remember that up until maybe a decade ago, this entire "large vs small" argument didn't exist - you got full-range to every channel and if the speaker couldn't hack it, it just rolled off. Eventually you can probably reach xmax/xmech trying to push LF through a small driver, but you'd have to know more about the specific speaker to know when this may occur (and I'm guessing, but could be wrong, that for the majority of receiver/speaker combos, this value is above what the receiver can dish out as a constant tone (and again remember, we're talking music and movies, not sinewave sweeps)).


That all being said, you should set bass management up properly, as it will improve sound quality. Generally this does mean setting everything to small, but in some cases that's incorrect (it's situational).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walbert /forum/post/20844715


Yes, setting the speaker to large or small does relatively little in terms of power consumption or use - at absolute level best it will provide an additional 3 dB of head-room (the crossover points are just too low, if you were crossing over at 5000hz, then all of the claims would be absolutely true).


Remember that up until maybe a decade ago, this entire "large vs small" argument didn't exist - you got full-range to every channel and if the speaker couldn't hack it, it just rolled off. Eventually you can probably reach xmax/xmech trying to push LF through a small driver, but you'd have to know more about the specific speaker to know when this may occur (and I'm guessing, but could be wrong, that for the majority of receiver/speaker combos, this value is above what the receiver can dish out as a constant tone (and again remember, we're talking music and movies, not sinewave sweeps)).


There is a big difference between pushing 20 htz and only pushing 80 htz, and if the speaker can not handle it at high volume, to say nothing of distortion produced trying to put out a huge amount of sound through a small driver, you end up with a blown speaker. And what will kill that speaker is the distortion.


That all being said, you should set bass management up properly, as it will improve sound quality. Generally this does mean setting everything to small, but in some cases that's incorrect (it's situational).

There is a big difference between pushing 80 htz and 20 htz. And if one tries to produce loud, low bass through a small driver, most likely will produce distortion and fry the driver.
 
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