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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just wanted to post about a trend I've been seeing here on AVS over the past several months as increasing numbers of members who were originally in one camp or the other have "crossed over" and now are using both formats in their HT setups.


The war won't be settled by folks who make this compromise, because 90% of consumers are not going to buy two HD playback devices just so that they can see all of the content out there.


Although whichever side loses the war will drag this out for at least a couple more years refusing to release titles in the other format, most studios will line up behind whoever is clearly ahead by the middle of 2008.


Obviously everyone here is a "big kid" and can spend their money however they like, but please don't make it out that just because you have decided to throw dollars at both formats, that somehow this format war doesn't matter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 /forum/post/0


I just wanted to post about a trend I've been seeing here on AVS over the past several months as increasing numbers of members who were originally in one camp or the other have "crossed over" and now are using both formats in their HT setups.


The war won't be settled by folks who make this compromise, because 90% of consumers are not going to buy two HD playback devices just so that they can see all of the content out there.


Although whichever side loses the war will drag this out for at least a couple more years refusing to release titles in the other format, most studios will line up behind whoever is clearly ahead by the middle of 2008.


Obviously everyone here is a "big kid" and can spend their money however they like, but please don't make it out that just because you have decided to throw dollars at both formats, that somehow this format war doesn't matter.

I doubt that us small minority of A/V geeks will have any impact whatsoever on the format war. We are only talking about thousands of units sold so far, not millions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Originally Posted by Nats /forum/post/0


I doubt that us small minority of A/V geeks will have any impact whatsoever on the format war. We are only talking about thousands of units sold so far, not millions.

Yes, I agree.


However, an increasing number of forum members have been asserting in their posts that "there is no war" because they have chosen to back both formats.
 

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Remember you are at an enthusiasts site - not a gambling site betting on a winner..


Holding out long term with 1 format is simply playing politics

Getting both is more the enthusiasts approach as you own both technologies and have access to ALL HD content (which is very important for us enthusiasts).


I think you will see more and more members here owning both as it looks like this war will go on for a couple of years..


So, for those folks, the wwar does not matter..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Originally Posted by thebland /forum/post/0


Remember you are at an enthusiasts site - not a gambling site betting on a winner..


Holding out long term with 1 format is simply playing politics

Getting both is more the enthusiasts approach as you own both technologies and have access to ALL HD content (which is very important for us enthusiasts).


I think you will see more and more members here owning both as it looks like this war will go on for a couple of years..


So, for those folks, the wwar does not matter..

Right, for those folks the war does not matter, but for most of us it still will matter for quite a long time. The sooner there is enough momentum one way or another for a victor to be declared the sooner we standardize on one format.


I really don't want to buy a deck for the format I haven't chosen just to see a few "must have" films that won't be released in the competing format. I suspect the majority of those here feel the same way.
 

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For the folks who only have one player, it shouldn't matter at all.


those folks have picked your player at a time of uncertainly, so t he risk was self imposed and, thus, let the chips fall as they may.


Nothing you or I do will change what is fate....so why worry?
 

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I think both positions have some validity.


As much as many consumers want one format, I don't think they are ging to get it in the end. Multiple sources will become the accepted norm. That is my current prediction.


There are 4 choices and nobody knows who will right at this point.

You may choose Blu-ray (purchase only a BD player)

You may choose HD-DVD (purchase only an HD-DVD player)

You may choose that both will survive long term (purchase players of both formats)

You may choose that both will fail (Not purchase at all, I mean SD-DVD is real good)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 /forum/post/0


I just wanted to post about a trend I've been seeing here on AVS over the past several months as increasing numbers of members who were originally in one camp or the other have "crossed over" and now are using both formats in their HT setups.


The war won't be settled by folks who make this compromise, because 90% of consumers are not going to buy two HD playback devices just so that they can see all of the content out there.


Although whichever side loses the war will drag this out for at least a couple more years refusing to release titles in the other format, most studios will line up behind whoever is clearly ahead by the middle of 2008.


Obviously everyone here is a "big kid" and can spend their money however they like, but please don't make it out that just because you have decided to throw dollars at both formats, that somehow this format war doesn't matter.

Maybe they just meant the format war doesn't matter to them. As a dual format owner, either way, we're covered. If you happen to be a gamer who owns players that also doubles as a gaming console, you really don't care about the format war. Your machines do double duty.


I really don't think they're speaking for people who have invested in one side only.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 /forum/post/0


The sooner there is enough momentum one way or another for a victor to be declared the sooner we standardize on one format.

Momentum is player sales. With the current minimums of $500 retail for any player, this isn't going to be decided anytime soon as long as companies hold out. I'm sure that you do understand if Universal somehow defected, all your concerns would be over and everyone could buy one format that provided all the content with Blu-ray. Of course that still wouldn't solve anything because of the higher Blu-ray player prices. Like yourself, most people would still be tempted to instead buy HD DVD for the lower sticker price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/0


Momentum is player sales. With the current minimums of $500 retail for any player, this isn't going to be decided anytime soon as long as companies hold out. I'm sure that you do understand if Universal somehow defected, all your concerns would be over and everyone could buy one format that provided all the content with Blu-ray. Of course that still wouldn't solve anything because of the higher Blu-ray player prices. Like yourself, most people would still be tempted to instead buy HD DVD for the lower sticker price.

It's true that player sales is what studios look at in determining what to do. They also (probably) look at attach rates on players based on how much software they are selling.


These numbers are certainly accessible to the executives of any studio.


The studios might also have a strong preference for supporting a given format based on the features/capabilities/security of that format, or due to contractual or informal business agreements with other companies.


For example, Fox and Disney initially refused to support DVD because they wanted the stronger copy protection and greater profits that could be realized for DIVX. It was only after player sales and attach rates on DVD became so large that they started to produce on DVD.


For the record, both Fox and Disney at different times stated that they would NEVER support DVD, which is interesting I think in the current context of this format war and what companies have said.


Right now the studios seem to strongly support BR because of greater believed security and capabilities. Universal hates Sony so they are HD-DVD only. Some other studios that are neutral seem to have preference for one format or another for their own reasons.


Back to the original point. Sony is telling the studios that every PS3 sold is a BR player, and the studios are willing to believe this to keep BR going. The real question will be, how much BR media can be sold on the back of the PS3, and does J6P show any likelihood at all of supporting both formats in large numbers (which would result in a stalemate and eventual "standardization" of hybrid discs or players).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac /forum/post/0


well... it's principle vs. instant gratification. I'm not a instant type of guy, however....

You are assuming that those of us are vested in the format war. I don't care who wins. I didn't buy the Toshiba first because I hate Blu Ray. I bought the Toshiba because it was the first player available and did what it was suppose to do. When Blu Ray became availabe, I bought the Panasonic.


Why? Because I am HT hobbyist. I enjoy the hobby. This "format war" is not a matter of principles or instant gratification in my case. I can afford to buy both players and it one becomes worthless than so be it. I've enjoyed the player and the movies.


By breaking it down into two simplistic camps, I think you are loosing sight that AVS reason for it's existence is an HT hobbyist website. Sometimes it all about trying to get the best in audio and video and not about waging a "war" against corporate America.
 

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I find it sad that into day and age we have these pointless wars. I know not all companies get along but not releasing movies on both formats is beyond comprehension at least to me.


The MAIN and only goal for any company is to make money the fastest and easiest way possible. So like everyone making the most money is always your goal and what I don't understand why they don't release in both formats from the start?


I do understand that Sony may be paying them off but I would have to guess that if they support both formats in the long run they would make more money from dvd sales from that other format than they would have made in that one time deal with Sony.


I just don't get it and hope very soon the companies like Fox and Disney, Lions Gate will see the big picture. You would think Fox would give up on Sony after Blu-Ray fails at least we hope so, so the next war they will release on the better format or at least both!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster /forum/post/0


You are assuming that those of us are vested in the format war. I don't care who wins. I didn't buy the Toshiba first because I hate Blu Ray. I bought the Toshiba because it was the first player available and did what it was suppose to do. When Blu Ray became availabe, I bought the Panasonic.


Why? Because I am HT hobbyist. I enjoy the hobby. This "format war" is not a matter of principles or instant gratification in my case. I can afford to buy both players and it one becomes worthless than so be it. I've enjoyed the player and the movies.


By breaking it down into two simplistic camps, I think you are loosing sight that AVS reason for it's existence is an HT hobbyist website. Sometimes it all about trying to get the best in audio and video and not about waging a "war" against corporate America.

I'm not saying that being either of the position is mal. I'm just pointing out that some people likes having all the toys as they're available and the others like the choosing sides of the committed format. None will result in a life or death situation and whatever a person chooses to do, to each his own.


As for how ones decision affecting the format war for those with political minds is another side of being a hobbyist as well.... to each his own, even for the polical hobbyists.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland /forum/post/0


Remember you are at an enthusiasts site - not a gambling site betting on a winner..


Holding out long term with 1 format is simply playing politics

Getting both is more the enthusiasts approach as you own both technologies and have access to ALL HD content (which is very important for us enthusiasts).

Even enthusiast has their limits and principles. Otherwise by that same token every satellite dish enthusiast should subscribe to both DirecTV and Dish Network. Sorry Bland it just doesn't work that way, life is a series of compromises as you should well know especially since you claim to be a wine connisuer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 /forum/post/0


Universal hates Sony so they are HD-DVD only.


The real question will be, how much BR media can be sold on the back of the PS3

Long-term the worst case for Blu-ray is if the PS3 remains their cheapest retail player, but let's just take the short-term worst-case scenario for Blu-ray and say that the PS3 doesn't sell HD movies and all the studios flip to HD DVD. Do you really think that by the middle of next year Sony is going to start putting out HD DVDs? Even in your pro HD DVD best-case outlook, the most that might happen a year and a half from now is a reverse of today where Sony is the one studio holding out.
 

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Mid 2008 seems a bit too far away for companies to make a choice like that. Hopefully more companies will swing one way or the other sooner.
 

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Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/0


Long-term the worst case for Blu-ray is if the PS3 remains their cheapest retail player, but let's just take the short-term worst-case scenario for Blu-ray and say that the PS3 doesn't sell HD movies and all the studios flip to HD DVD. Do you really think that by the middle of next year Sony is going to start putting out HD DVDs? Even in your pro HD DVD best-case outlook, the most that might happen a year and a half from now is a reverse of today where Sony is the one studio holding out.

If sony was the only holdout on the blu-ray side, then blu-ray would be in big trouble. Sony doesn't make THAT MANY big movies a year compared to Universal. I'm not saying they don't make them because they do, but they aren' t that big of a deal as a movie company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/0


Long-term the worst case for Blu-ray is if the PS3 remains their cheapest retail player, but let's just take the short-term worst-case scenario for Blu-ray and say that the PS3 doesn't sell HD movies and all the studios flip to HD DVD. Do you really think that by the middle of next year Sony is going to start putting out HD DVDs? Even in your pro HD DVD best-case outlook, the most that might happen a year and a half from now is a reverse of today where Sony is the one studio holding out.

My stance is not strictly strictly pro HD-DVD. I've expressed plenty of doubts about HD and it's obviously very frustrating for anyone, HD-DVD or BR to watch the studios holding out titles for either format.


As far as this "worst case scenario" for BR, which very well might happen if the PS3 becomes a total bomb and can't move BR software;


I fully expect Sony and Fox to hold out against releasing on HD-DVD until well into 2008 at the very earliest, even if HD-DVD enjoys a substantial sales lead and the other studios go neutral.


If people really want those titles in the meantime they will buy a BR player, a PS3 or a combo machine.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/0


Long-term the worst case for Blu-ray is if the PS3 remains their cheapest retail player, but let's just take the short-term worst-case scenario for Blu-ray and say that the PS3 doesn't sell HD movies and all the studios flip to HD DVD. Do you really think that by the middle of next year Sony is going to start putting out HD DVDs? Even in your pro HD DVD best-case outlook, the most that might happen a year and a half from now is a reverse of today where Sony is the one studio holding out.


Personally, if Sony were to ever become the only hold-out to HD-DVD, the war would already be over in my eyes. Besides Spiderman, Sony controls the absolute WORST library of any major studio. So I'd miss Close Encounters, Tootsie, Ghostbusters and a handful of other good films - BIG DEAL! If Disney & Fox ever switched, there would be more content than I would be able to keep up with. Hell, I already have over 100 titles on HD-DVD with the current studios' titles.


I don't understand the lack of patience with this format war for many folks. I'm generally pretty impatient myself, but we waited SEVEN YEARS for Star Wars & Back To the Future on DVD, six years for Indy, nine years for King Kong - and there are still many catalog titles that have yet to see the light of day on DVD ten years later. How are we all so impatient after 8 months with a new format?
 
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