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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the Taw website, they have posted that they and Key Digitial will no longer be working together anymore. Taw will not be using Clear Matrix anymore on their new models and they will not be supporting the Leeza software. I dont know what that means for the current model, but I would assume they would have to keep using Clearmatrix for now.


I would guess that Taw is getting the better end of the deal. Why, because Taw can get themselves another deinterlacing software (which supposedly they have already done)


but Key Digital has to stick with Taws software for their current units. That in itself is okay as the software is stable and complete, but what does that say for upgradeability?
 

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Actually, I'd guess that KD gets the better part of the deal. Being associated with TAW is not necessarily a good thing; I strongly suspect Mark R. is no longer working with TAW, either, but rather with KD. We'll see.. -m
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You could be right, but I heard that Mark R is working on some other project for Taw.


I thought the same about Mark as he seems to be missing somewhat. He doesnt seem to be on the Taw website very much.


On this fourm, yes it would seem better to be assoc with KD than Taw. As I have a Leeza, it would be great if Mark worked for KD.


Like you say, we'll see
 

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I would suggest holding off. There was no official post from TAW. As things go they have constantly been improving there product. This may be just a natural evolution for them and if it brings there product to a higher level then all the better for all. There's nothing wrong with a company raising the bar. The performance of the Rock+ is excellent!


JohnBoy:rolleyes:
 

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Mark is not working with KD, as far as I know he is still working with TAW. I don't really want to get too involved with this thread but, who got the better end of the deal is all very subjective. Of course, I feel KD made out the clear winner, just to be disassociated from TAW is a plus. Mike is the brains behind everything, Phil knows next to nothing and is a rude SOB to boot! I suspect both companies will be bringing something new to the table, then we will see who made out better by comparing those two products head to head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Johnboy, the split between Taw and KD is on the Taw website and it was written by Phil himself.


Since I have seen the nasty comments from both people for and against Taw in the last couple of years and I dont want to get in between them, I just posted what was posted in the Taw forum itself.


On who gets the better end of it, thats pure speculation of my part and really wasnt the intent of my post. In anycase, I didnt make any negative comments about either company
 

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I Agree Danny,


I didn't mean to suggest. You are right and I stand corrected. Its best not to get in the middle of this stuff. To put a positive spin on this it can only mean better processing all around. Let's hope the bar is raised and very high. For that, only the consumer will benefit.


JohnBoy:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know the scalers arent getting cheaper with some companies.


I just wanted to smile and put the whole discussion in a positve note.

That being said, reality doesnt necessarly follow theory


Then again, the new scaler from FE is supposed to be much cheaper and real good
 

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Quote:
Humey said


I know the scalers arent getting cheaper with some companies.
Lets speak on relative terms for those of us who all too recently remember how Faroudja stuck it to us for years witth their equipment.


Line doublers, quadruplers, etc. from Faroudja used to start at $15,000. Most were $20,000


Just a few years ago, the Faroudja VP 301 (a line two and a halfer) mated with a Runco 980 Ultra for $15,000.00 (just the price of the Faroudja, did not include CRT)! Thats probably $20,000 in todays dollars!


No SDI, NO DVI, NO DCDi, ONE OUTPUTED RATE, NO UPGRADEABILITY AT ALL! $15K!!


Yes some products with some companies are getting a bit more pricey, but relatively, scalers and such are a bargain these days!*


*sans Teranex


Jeff
 

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Quote:
I would guess that Taw is getting the better end of the deal. Why, because Taw can get themselves another deinterlacing software (which supposedly they have already done)
Hang on to your wallets! Your in for a shock.
 

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TOM: I have already heard the rumors about who's seinterlacing algorithym they are using. I will believe it when I see it with my own 2 eyes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jeff


I dont disagree with you about Faroudja, but at the time they were the best and one of the few to have line doublers and scalers. They could pretty much charge whatever they wanted.


That day is gone. Aside from Faroudja now being owned by another company and thus a different philosophy, I think all of the new companies coming out with their own scaler has to bring down the cost of the equipment.


Look at the NR, yes you are limited to one resolution, but it is reasonably priced. My guess is that if they had released this scaler 5 years ago, the price would have been much higher.


Take the Vigatec, Leeza and the Rock Plus. Each has it weaknesses and strenghts, but they are all in the same ball park in perfomance. Their is no jusitfication for any one of them be priced very much higher than other. For the rich and well to do, it might not make a difference, but for me, I would probably go with the one that was the cheapest or priced the best per performance. In other words, I wont pay alot more money for another 10% of performance. If enough people do this, it would bring pressure on the highest price scaler to reduce their prices.


Lets assume that doesnt happen, but now we have a new player in the market. Focus Enhancement is coming out with a new scaler that is supposed to be really good and in the 2K range. I dont enough about it to know how it compares in features, but assuming the picture quality is equal or better, then prices of the competiting scalers will have to lower their prices to compete. Some may add addtional features to jusify their higher prices, but again to some it doesnt pay


I have a Dila and I used 1365x1024 on my Leeza. Do i care that it can do many more resolutions when I am not using them. Why should I pay 2000 for resolutions that I may never use


So while in relative terms some scalers are way cheaper compared to the old days, I think the trend will be create better and cheaper equipment. As it is the scaler pie is limited so competition has to be a factor. For those not caring about costs, they will probably go with the faroudja just because of name and not care that the Rock, Vig, Leeza or the new FE model can accomplish the same with less money
 

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First,


Mark R is still with TAW.


there was no official word of a breakup between the two companies - only that Phil has decided to change video deinterlacing algorithm to something called "Pixel Perfect", which he says is a pure TAW development.


Humey,

Regarding purchasing or building deinterlacing software. Can you tell me one software algorithm that's out for sale? There aren't that many good deinterlacing algorithms out there. Faroudja & Silicon Image made a killing & won many awards by NOT divulging their algorithms. Other than ClearMatrix, I'm not aware of a software algorithm for sale by anyone else (although the other two can also be done in software, of course).


Who else has a deinterlacing algorithm?
 

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Try Snell&Wilcox.


I hear another price increase!



A littleTaw history:

Taw Speaker cables: ?????.
Taw subwoofer: Where is it.
Taw dvd player: over priced, only sold a few.
Taw dvd link: Did not work right. Never heard about it again.
Taw Rock: Original $3500 scaler that is now 7k and climbing and has undergone more algorithm changes than any other scaler while each change is touted as the best in the industry!
Taw warranty: Taw has the best warranty in the industry, if their customer decides to pass on the inflated repair estimate their warranty is canceled.
Taws forum: Its open/ its closed/ its open
Taws public relations:In one years time scientist Phil has pissed off or offended 2/3rds the AV industry.
 

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WoW!


The Rock wars all over again?


I always though that Phil was a nice guy - even if rough around the edges. And we all know and appreciate Mark Rejhon, who did so much for the AVS forum in its early days. He is most deserving of a successful and rewarding career.


I know that TAW has grown - used to be a used Barco reseller with a strong reputation for friendliness. Several times he helped me out back in those days, just an unknown email from a foreign country. Never was his customer, then or now.


TAW is now feeding more people than just Phil (and the corvette he used to display on his website). ;)


A distribution channel also must fit into the price equation, as well as product improvement. The comment that The Rock has had many many upgrades is proof that at least some of the price increases have served to make it a better product.


They're convinced that they've got the best product to be found. It's good to be enthused by what you do, maybe less so to toot your own horn? It apparently turns more people off than on. Also, it discredits their prior claims that they are industry leaders when they eclipse their previous performance on a regular basis...


The Rock is a great concept which did lead the industry: merging an HTPC's flexibility with a standalone scaler's convenience and user friendliness. They did hold their promise on this ground, and delivered.


Where they didn't follow suit is with their initial claims of being the "outsider" who would pull the rug out from overpriced scalers - keeping as main objective the "Bang-for-the-Buck". Not that it's a bad value, just that they've changed their priorities from making a great scaler for Joe six-pack to making the best scaler they know how to make, thus no longer for Joe six-pack.


I'll stick to my beers, but won't burp at either TAW or those with Champagne budgets. :cool:
 

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Every single scaler manufacturer will be unveiling new products within the next few months. Faroudja just started shipping the combo units. Vigatec announced a new Dune with Faroudja chips. The highly touted FE unit ships in days. Extron started shipping their latest about a month ago. Both TAW and KD have to make new units, neither of their current production run can work without the others hardware/software and finding reverse engineered products is too expensive and time consuming, better to just start a new which they both will probably be doing.


Reading through the TAW forums is a laughable experience. Stories of how Phil was watching Basketball with his family and decide that clearmatrix just wasn't good enough, ridiculous. His announcement is nothing more than a scorned lovers cover up, claiming he severed relations with KD is an outright lie and everyone in the know saw this coming, knew the reasons and knows who really severed relations with who and why they did it.


According to rumors, Snell and Wilcox will be doing the deinterlacing, which by the way, is still inferior to Faroudja so don't get star struck. I am no engineer but, Ofer is correct. In order to put an algorythym like that into the Rock will take far more processing power than it currently has and will require a full rework, leaving current Rock owners in the dust and raising the Rock prices to ludicrous levels. Phil's claims that the new algorythym is 100% proprietary and done in house by Rock engineers is either true and therefore not S&W or a lie and supplied by an outside entity. Being that the only engineers Phil has ever known are Mike from KD and Mark Rejorn, you draw your own conclusions.
 

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Quote:
Regarding purchasing or building deinterlacing software. Can you tell me one software algorithm that's out for sale? There aren't that many good deinterlacing algorithms out there. Faroudja & Silicon Image made a killing & won many awards by NOT divulging their algorithms. Other than ClearMatrix, I'm not aware of a software algorithm for sale by anyone else (although the other two can also be done in software, of course).


Who else has a deinterlacing algorithm?
I do.


And I'm currently unemployed. Make me an offer and I'll write you a custom one. ;)


- Tom
 
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