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Like the title says, I've begun the buying process but I have a couple of questions that I want to make sure I get good answers to.


First of all, I don't live near any stations that I can get with an off-air antenna, so its either cable or DTV for me. Since I've been a DTV subscriber since Jan 94, I called them to see what kind of deal I could get on their HD system with Tivo. As you might imagine, I got a good one with all the rebates, free Showtime for 6 months, ... Its supposed to be installed this afternoon.


So now, I need a HDTV to watch it on. Being in the remote area I'm in, (Western PA near nothing) its not easy to go to stores and compare displays but I've done what I could.


I've settled on Panasonic as my brand of choice, and I"m either going to get a 42" or 50" display. This is where my questions come in.


1) Do I need a display with an integrated tuner or, since I will have DTV's tuner, do I just need a monitor?


2) Whats the difference between the Panny TH-50PX50U and the Panny TH-50PHD7UY? I know that one has a tuner and the other is only a monitor but, what are the other differences?


Is the picture quality the same? Does one have some feature(s) that the other is missing?


Since I'm forced to search the net for info on these systems and can't easily go to a store that would have both in stock I'm turning to you guys to make sure I'm not missing anything. If after you guys further inform me as to what's what, then I'll get on the phone and try to find a store where I can go view the 50PHD7UY if it seems that is what I want (I've already seen the 42PX50U and 50PX50U).


Thanks;

TRJohns
 

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If you are using only satellite forever and ever, the tuner would be wasted. If you switch to cable, you'd be limited to going through a cable box.


The 7UY is a "commercial" display. You will find it difficult to impossible to find in a store because of this. It is designed for things like displaying flights at an airport. Many people find it very satisfactory for home use however. There is lots of discussion on the board of this model. Try a search.


Major differences from the "consumer" model PX50U are no tuner or speakers, no in-home service, and if you want something other than a component connection, you have to buy a terminal board separately (you'll see these called "blades" here.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRJohns
I've settled on Panasonic as my brand of choice, and I"m either going to get a 42" or 50" display. This is where my questions come in.


1) Do I need a display with an integrated tuner or, since I will have DTV's tuner, do I just need a monitor?
You can get by with just a monitor which also requires external speakers for sound. If you want the option to switch to cable TV without need for an external STB, you may wish to consider the PX50U which includes speakers, stand, tuners & CableCARD slot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRJohns
2) Whats the difference between the Panny TH-50PX50U and the Panny TH-50PHD7UY? I know that one has a tuner and the other is only a monitor but, what are the other differences?
The 7UY has PC and component inputs, it uses a system of swappable cards to support other connectivity options like DVI/HDMI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRJohns
Is the picture quality the same? Does one have some feature(s) that the other is missing?
Picture quality will be similar but the PX50U is Panasonic's 8th generation display which includes a sub-pixel controller and provides a 30% increase in horizontal resolution.
 

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What's the story on ability to tweak the consumer vs. commercial Panny plasmas? Did I read that you can't fully ISF a consumer version? Specifically what can't be adjusted? How much of a limitation is this?
 

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ISF calibration is IMO another urban myth which is unnecessary for today's FP's. ISF calibrations are limited to DVD play back on a component or HDMI connection. If you purchase a DCR-TV and use the CableCARD, the factory pre-sets are so accurate there is no need to pursue the fallacy of doing an ISF calibration.
 

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Most assuredly, just like the black bar crowd has. What amuses me is the "rocket scientists" of AVSF insist Panasonic doesn't know how to apply a picture setting for their own PDPs! :D
 

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optivity,


YIKES.....OUCH.....WHAT.....HUH.....WOW.....HOLY COW, OPTIVITY......


Why did you say that a "ISF calibration is IMO another urban myth which is unnecessary for today's FP's"????


I agree that the factory settings are more accurate today then they were a few years ago, but they are still not perfect.


Both NTSC and ATSC signals can be calibrated on your display if the calibrator has the correct equipment.


No two Plasmas are a like and at the factory it would be cost prohibitive to try and calibrate each and every Plasma, so they get them in the ballpark but its up to the calibrator to get them home.


Dave
 

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optivity,


Your experience is obviously very limited. The number of display devices and sources that are delivered in a state that results in an accurate image is very limited. I have never seen a consumer setup that did not require significant adjustment to get its best performance. I would say it is more of a myth that most displays and sources are accurate.


The reason that many displays are not calibrated accurately is that properly calibrated displays have been proven to sell worse than their bright blue cousins. Some manufacturers do need some help understanding what to do, but I doubt Panasonic is in that category. I have had significant discussions with engineers on how to improve their design to help eliminate these problems at the factory.


However, it is a fact that some manufacturers are limiting the amount of adjustments that can be made leaving some consumers very disappointed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr
optivity,


Your experience is obviously very limited... The reason that many displays are not calibrated accurately is that properly calibrated displays have been proven to sell worse than their bright blue cousins.
The current generation of Panasonic PDPs have factory preset picture settings which are extremely accurate. Panasonic PDPs are set to the Vivid (torch) mode before they leave the factory for sales purposes. You are correct that my experience with DTVs is limited to a Panasonic: CT-36HL42 & TH-50PX50U, however the PX50U is the only platform I am referring to regarding the lack of necessity for an ISF calibration.


For those buying a DTV, my suggestion is to watch it for awhile before considering having it ISF calibrated.


The phosphors will change over time and the TV should be used differently during it's break-in period anyway.


After viewing my PX50U since May 1st, my observation is the color rendering is extremely accurate.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
...After viewing my PX50U since May 1st, my observation is the color rendering is extremely accurate.
Your experience with the PX50U does not agree with any other sources that I look at. CNET observed significant red color decoder error that was not correctable. The display also had no ability to correct the gray scale error although the error was not huge. This public report agrees with every ISF tech I have seen post on this display in the ISF forum where we discuss these issues.


CNET Review

http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/Panaso...5.html?tag=top
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr
Your experience with the PX50U does not agree with any other sources that I look at. CNET observed significant red color decoder error that was not correctable. The display also had no ability to correct the gray scale error although the error was not huge. This public report agrees with every ISF tech I have seen post on this display in the ISF forum where we discuss these issues.


CNET Review

http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/Panaso...5.html?tag=top
Only because they couldn't figure out how to access the service menu...


From CNET:


"In terms of color accuracy, the grayscale in the Warm setting came fairly close to the NTSC color-temperature standard. Unfortunately, Panasonic has yet again changed its access to the service menu of its plasmas; as a result, we were unable to correct the grayscale through calibration. Color decoding, while not perfect, was better than on most of the plasma panels we have tested, with the exception of Panasonic's own industrial models, which are dead-on accurate; however, you should set the color-management feature to Off, as it negatively affects the color decoding. The set's video processing is clean and incorporates the all-important 2:3 pull-down processing for film-based video from standard-definition cable, satellite, and antenna sources."


also from CNET regarding calibration:


"Some TVs, however, have color-temperature presets that come close to 6,500K. That's why CNET's reviews always note the "out of the box" color temperature as we measured it. If that measurement comes close to 6,500K, then the set is in less need of a grayscale calibration. Note that very few TVs come close to the ideal color temperature, even in their warmest mode."


It would be more helpful if you were "fair & balanced" regarding the information as it pertains to the PX50U's color rendering rather than just spin your predisposition towards a pro ISF calibration. ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
But you're off regarding the whole calibration issue... like I said (and so has CNET) for the PX50U it's not necessary.
I don't believe I am off at all, but if you are happy with your plasma that is fine with me.


Anyone who refers to correlated color temperature for gray scale and uses it to say a display is accurate instead of some form of Delta E from D65 exposes how much they are off on gray scale calibration for all to see. A proper calibration is also much more than gray scale or the display itself.
 

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So your saying you'll only quote CNET when it serves your purpose. ;)


A good digital signal devoid of interference will do a lot more for picture quality than ISF calibrating garbage in...
 

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A digital signal is not necessarily good and is much less important in most cases than proper calibration and setup. Analog signals can frequently be superior for a given display and resolution than its digital input. Digital inputs are also frequently converted to analog inside the display so common topology can be utilized for digital and analog inputs simplifying the user interface and circuit design. The digital inputs also frequently use some rather harsh filtering on 480p/i inputs that can be less than desirable compared to the analog inputs on the same display.


I never mentioned that an ISF technician was required be it one whom is garbage or not.


However, I take strong opposition to the hypothesis that you proposed being that "...calibration is IMO another urban myth which is unnecessary for today's FP's." That is not my experience at all. I believe careful calibration and setup is required for most if not all displays and many sources if you want to get the best PQ from your equipment. Any statement to the contrary would be very misleading based on my experience.
 

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UMR, you are likewise 'spinning' the review by referring to the red push as significant and uncorrectible. It is 10% over neutral which is not bad. And if you really wanted to fix it you can by building an attenuator to plug into your red cable if you use component. I have built one myself that I used on my Elite CRT for awhile until I decided I was getting too obsessive about my PQ.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanP
UMR, you are likewise 'spinning' the review by referring to the red push as significant and uncorrectible. It is 10% over neutral which is not bad. And if you really wanted to fix it you can by building an attenuator to plug into your red cable if you use component. I have built one myself that I used on my Elite CRT for awhile until I decided I was getting too obsessive about my PQ.
I did not phrase that as accurately as I should have.


The red decoder error is not correctable in the display. That does not negate the value of correcting or as I might prefer to say calibrating it. 10% over neutral is not good in my book, but if you can accept it that is fine with me. Unfortunately, the attenuator approach does not work for all input types.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr
I take strong opposition to the hypothesis that you proposed being that "...calibration is IMO another urban myth which is unnecessary for today's FP's." That is not my experience at all. I believe careful calibration and setup is required for most if not all displays and many sources if you want to get the best PQ from your equipment. Any statement to the contrary would be very misleading based on my experience.
"Some TVs, however, have color-temperature presets that come close to 6,500K... If that measurement comes close to 6,500K, then the set is in less need of a grayscale calibration."


What don't you understand?
 
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