[CottyGee]

I *was* limiting myself to a sealed servo sub that would fit in the bottom of my stereo cabinet. Musicality was the primary concern. But... As I've read more here, I'm not so sure anymore! I crave that THUNDERING ROAD from a strong, pounding HT sub. My room is gargantuan - 20x22 w/ 14' vaulted ceilings, open to two small hallways and a large kitchen/dining area that's about 30x18 w/ 14' vaulted ceilings. I have no idea how many cubic feet it ends up being, but it's a ton, for sure!


Next wrinkle is that Velodyne has offered me a "trade-in" deal w/ me sending in my dead Velo F-1200 on a "B-Stock" Optimum-12 for $650, which is a really tempting deal. Or I can get a VDR-12 (I think it's that model - wrote it down at work and forgot to bring it home).


I also thought about getting the SVS PC13-Ultra. But, I'm concerned about room effects and not being able to EQ the SVS like I could the Velo Optimum-12. The SVS is probably the only thing that would come close to really filling the huge volume of my room - and it's really more than I want to spend, but maybe I'd be best off biting the bullet and getting something that could really rock the house...


Recapping:

• Had a Velo F-1200 for 17 years. It's dead.
• Velodyne is offering a "B-Stock" Optimum-12 being offered as a trade-in for way less than I think it can be had elsewhere.
• Velodyne is also offering a "B-Stock" VDR-12 for something like $375.
• SVS PC13 Ultra is another possibility.
• Or something else you guys might recommend that doesn't cost any more than the SVS PC13 Ultra.

I'm leaning toward the Velo Optimum-12 at this point, mostly because it seems like a heck of a deal, but don't want to have "regrets" for the next 15-20 years!


Any guidance from you basshead gurus??


Thank in advance.

 

[shadyJ]

I think your dilemma is pretty clear, and you are really just trying to get us to push you to get the PC13. You know very well the PC13 is the only sub that stands a chance in that room. The bottom line is, if you really want nice bass, you will have to bite the bullet and get the PC13.

 

[dondino]

Dual Epik Empires

 

[CottyGee]

LOL Well, I'm actually not so sure. Having lived w/ the Velo F-1200 for 17 years and enjoyed it tremendously, I'm actually leaning most toward the Optimum. It's selling for $1,499 at authorized dealers (despite its $1,899 MSRP). With the trade-in at half MSRP, I'm wondering if I'm just being retarded and should immediately pull the trigger and not look back.


The room EQ seems to me like it would be a huge factor - at least from what I've read. I have no clue about placement and so forth, which seems as much art as it is science. I'm equally clueless about acoustics in general! I suppose if money were no object, I'd buy the SVS and some gizmo that would EQ it and be done with it.


So, I really AM undecided. The Velo Optimum seems like SUCH an attractive deal. It's infinitely more "sellable" to my spousal unit. The Opti on paper seems like it would be a huge step up from what I've enjoyed for 17 years. (And the deal Velo was a huge step up from my first M&K 12-inch).


I guess I'm asking about the Velo Optimum-12 and how it compares with the Velo F-1200 - and also how big a factor room eq is. I've never had that feature, but reading about it, it sounds like something that can make or break a sub's performance.

 

[jpmst3]

I have tried just about every Velodyne in some form (demo or ownership or friend's) and they are fine subs. But, you can get much more for you money, output and SQ wise.

I liked the DDs, but even they have been left in the dust. I guess that's why they are totally revamping them later this year....



Get the PC-13! You will thank me!

 

[CottyGee]

Thank you, Joe. That's excellent information.


So what about room EQ and such? I've never owned a ported sub. Even my car subs I've had built have always been sealed. The PC-13 is decently flat?? Wish I could hear the darned thing!


If I go w/ the PC-13, I prolly hafta wait to talk the wifey into letting drop that much cash on something we really don't "need". But I can prolly buy a new driver and amp for reasonably cheap (and more or less on the sly) and built the Velo box into something better for my garage system....


Damn, damn, damn...


Thanks.


So, is the consensus here gonna pretty much be the PC-13 is the way to go, even over the "B-Stock" Velo deal? Or are there some that can argue that the Velo is the better option, given it's being discounted??

 

[dondino]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CottyGee /forum/post/18172289


Thank you, Joe. That's excellent information.


So what about room EQ and such? I've never owned a ported sub. Even my car subs I've had built have always been sealed. The PC-13 is decently flat?? Wish I could hear the darned thing!


If I go w/ the PC-13, I prolly hafta wait to talk the wifey into letting drop that much cash on something we really don't "need". But I can prolly buy a new driver and amp for reasonably cheap (and more or less on the sly) and built the Velo box into something better for my garage system....


Damn, damn, damn...


Thanks.


So, is the consensus here gonna pretty much be the PC-13 is the way to go, even over the "B-Stock" Velo deal? Or are there some that can argue that the Velo is the better option, given it's being discounted??

I'm still recommending duals!

Like you, I have a lot of space to fill and my Empires do the job effortlessly. Plus a 2nd will even out your FR in that relatively large area. Ok, I'll admit I am biased because that's what I have but also consider ED and HSU. If music is your primary concern, I'd recommend a sealed design although ported works also but sealed tend to do better on music.


Mind you, I'm not knocking the PC-13, the SVS products are outstanding from what I've read and I almost bought one. I'm just trying to figure out what you'll be happiest with in the long run. Attached is a REW of my dual Empires in my 3300+ cft area that leads to a 5000+ cft great room, with no treatments or EQ.


Like you, I used to buy only B&M, big name brand subs. My last sub was a Velo also, 12" driver with a 15" radiator which was excellent. Served me well for 12+ years, and still does. But I'm finding the factory direct (non B&M) subs are much better bang for your buck. Not to knock what's being offered to you from Velo, just stating for ME, I'll most likely not buy another "mass market" sub again.


Good luck!

 

[dondino]

Did some EQ with the BFD and Empires today. 6 filters and some nudging here and there. Check out the before and afters.


Edit: sry this was meant for the Epik thread but had this window open still and posted here by accident.

 

[trolly]

I also vote for dual Empires

 

[CottyGee]

Okay - I've been working on the Mrs. all day. Tax return done - refund will fund this and a toy for her. So I may be on to something! LOL


I topped a thread from last month. Dual Epik Empires vs. an SVS PC13 Ultra. Those are the two I'm considering at this point. You've talked me outa the Velo.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1220806

 

[trolly]

You've got alot of cubic ft- my basement is just over 6900 and my dual Empires are fantastic- with that much space you will have much to gain with dual subs instead of 1.

 

[CottyGee]



Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly /forum/post/18175493


You've got just over 7500 cubic ft- my basement is just over 6900 and my dual Empires are fantastic- with that much space you will have much to gain with dual subs instead of 1.

Me?


I've got a 20x22x~12 room, open to a 15x18x~12 room, and open also to two hallways, one about 5x8x10 and another 5x15x10. Or there abouts. I calculated it at just over 13,000 cubic feet.

 

[trolly]

yeah- I corrected my calculation to "alot of cu. footage"

- I saw just the latter measurements- too many beverages to pay close attention

I say "Unleash the Dogs" and get quad Empires!

 

[CottyGee]

Or maybe quad Submersives? LOL

 

[trolly]

that would be some serious coinage- Seriously though- I've had my pair of Empires for about 2 weeks and they crush 6900 cubic feet.

 

[jpmst3]

If you are looking at the PC series, you are probably looking to save floor space. The PC is one of the only options that has that plus. You can hide them almost anywhere.


The PC-13 and most other susb will play flat until you get them into your environment. Then all bets are off as room interactions rule. That is where placement comes in and EQ if necessary.


I believe the PC still has a one band PEQ built in. That may be enough for you. You can always get more output by adding a second sub down the road.


I have always been a fan of sealed subs as well. Although, I have owned ported, slot ported, PR and now horns. Each design has its compromised.


One thing is for sure, the PC-13 will have more output, especially down low than even the mighty DD-18.

The only issue I have with Empires is that all the recommendations are based on anecdotal evidence. I have not seen one tested. I am sure they do well. But, the PC-13 is a proven performer. And an Empire won't touch a PC-13 from 25 Hz on down, that's the advantage of the ported setup, efficiency.

Another bonus to the PC is that it is tunable to how you want it, more SPL or more sub bass.

 

[trolly]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/18175896


You can hide them almost anywhere..

Riiiiight- I have no doubt 2 empires will outperform 1 PC13 in this size area

 

[DGrasso]

Although I believe you can do a lot better with some of todays newer subs, here is a link to a used version of the sub you used to use, just in case you're interested.

http://www.audioclassics.com/detail....=F1200&nav=cat