[Gooddoc]

A few M2/Crown DCI/N questions:

1-If i have a wireless wifi router and i connect my laptop to it (using wifi) then connect my two DCI/N amps using an ethernet cable to the router also will i be able to see both amps the same time on Audio Architect on my laptop?

Yes

2-Since i am using XLR cables for all my speakers for a long time. will something like a XLR to Phoenix cable work? i just want things to took neat without cutting any speaker cables and figuring out where everything is going to go. (Hosa Phx-206Fbulk 6-Inch Adaptor PHX3F to XLR3F)

Yes, as long as the pheonix connector the same. Some are different

4.My 3x M2's will all be behind an AT screen. do i have to raise the high frequency a little? i know some people like to lower high frequencies in their M2's (preference) so could this just maybe be ideal for most? the below is the effect of the screen on speakers from Screen innovations. most likely i will run MultEQ to 200hz or 300hz and let Audyssey not touch the rest.

''Typical impact on frequency response is well within the -3db range with a peak attenuation of -6db at 20kHz. This difference is easily corrected by most modern receivers with room correction.''

Let your ears decide. It is simple to make a correction filter in the amp and simply switch it on and off.

5-Any simple adapters/cables i could use that will let me turn on and off my three amps with my processor? don't want to walk to it every-time i want to turn it on or off.

I use a 12v relay that uses my prepro trigger. There may be some commercial options

--

 

[DonH50]

If you use a relay for the trigger circuit, be sure to get a solid-state relay or one that draws very low (~10 mA) current. Relays can draw a lot of current when turning on and send a HV spike when turning off. I have seen them blow trigger circuits (queue the "I've been doing it that way for years and never had a problem" crowd -- it only takes once). Three are plenty of relays with a little driver circuit to isolate the coil and those should work fine. Another option is a smart power strip that has a trigger input or senses when the "master" outlet is drawing power (e.g. your processor or whatever) and turns on the "slave" outlets to your power amps.

HTH - Don

 

[Balbolito]

--

Thanks Doc appreciate it! really helpful.

Any advice for a relay? maybe a link or a name that i could look up.

as in my previous setup it was way easier, 3 emotivas connected with an emotiva trigger device then just a cable to my processor.

 

[Gooddoc]

Thanks Doc appreciate it! really helpful.

Any advice for a relay? maybe a link or a name that i could look up.

as in my previous setup it was way easier, 3 emotivas connected with an emotiva trigger device then just a cable to my processor.

This is the one I used. Been working since 2014, so I would say it's reliable.
https://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-1A-TUB-J-CB-DC12-Insulation-QuickConnect-Terminal/dp/B005T73UHE

 

[DonH50]

158 mA coil current is well above many trigger output circuits. The half-dozen or so AVRs I have sitting around range from 50 mA to 200 mA max current.

Something like this might work: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electric-works/AQG22212/255-3751-ND/646007

I would drop an email to Digikey and describe the application to see what they say. There are thousands of relays and I did not try to find the best one... You want one that requires perhaps 20 mA or less input current and can handle maybe 0.5 to 1 A output current at 12 V.

 

[Gooddoc]

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electric-works/AQG22212/255-3751-ND/646007[/url]

The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.

158 mA coil current is well above many trigger output circuits. The half-dozen or so AVRs I have sitting around range from 50 mA to 200 mA max current.

Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.

 

[JonasHansen]

A few M2/Crown DCI/N questions:





5-Any simple adapters/cables i could use that will let me turn on and off my three amps with my processor? don't want to walk to it every-time i want to turn it on or off.

I have a couple of these in my theater. They are triggered by my projector, and all components are turned on one by one. Could also be triggered by the processor.

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/20a-smartsequencing-power-conditioner-CN-2400S

(I'm using the EU 230V version but same idea).

Doesnt your Crowns have some kind of auto standby mode which would allow you to not do anything after you turn off the processor? I remember reading something about that. Try and search the manual.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Balbolito]

The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.



Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.

I have the same trigger expansion module by Emotiva. how do i connect the relay to it? sorry but this is all new to me.

Thank u

 

[DonH50]

The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.

Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.

My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)

I have the same trigger expansion module by Emotiva. how do i connect the relay to it? sorry but this is all new to me.

Thank u

I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - Don

 

[Gooddoc]

My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)



I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - Don

No, my bad. You're correct in using the amp remote on/off circuit is the better way. I actually did that with my DCi, but my iTech 5000HD's don't have a remote like that so I used the higher amp relay in an outlet box as you described. I forgot he had the DCi amps.

The DCi relay I used is this one https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Automation-and-Safety/LY2-DC12?qs=Pjd0UV7BHP%252BA4G%252BkzsjVkw%3D%3D since I didn't know if I needed a NO or NC relay for the amp circuit. And I can't remember now what it was. But that one covered it .

My amps are all remote from my prepro, so using one of the sensing power strips was not an option. But if they're all together, that's probably the way to go IMO.

 

[Gooddoc]

I have a couple of these in my theater. They are triggered by my projector, and all components are turned on one by one. Could also be triggered by the processor.

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/20a-smartsequencing-power-conditioner-CN-2400S

(I'm using the EU 230V version but same idea).

Doesnt your Crowns have some kind of auto standby mode which would allow you to not do anything after you turn off the processor? I remember reading something about that. Try and search the manual.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Those Furmans look very nice, but very pricey! Turn-key solution though, so great solution if not wanting to DIY.

I think the Crowns do have a standby mode, but I never tried to use it. Need to dig up the manual .

 

[DonH50]

No, my bad. You're correct in using the amp remote on/off circuit is the better way. I actually did that with my DCi, but my iTech 5000HD's don't have a remote like that so I used the higher amp relay in an outlet box as you described. I forgot he had the DCi amps.

The DCi relay I used is this one https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Automation-and-Safety/LY2-DC12?qs=Pjd0UV7BHP%252BA4G%252BkzsjVkw%3D%3D since I didn't know if I needed a NO or NC relay for the amp circuit. And I can't remember now what it was. But that one covered it .

My amps are all remote from my prepro, so using one of the sensing power strips was not an option. But if they're all together, that's probably the way to go IMO.

No worries!

You could use a much smaller relay for the sensing circuit but yah that was the idea I had in mind. Great minds and all that jazz.

They make all sorts of "smart" power strips now. Some have "master" outlets to turn on the slave outlets, some have 12 V trigger inputs, and now there are a bunch of wireless (bluetooth and wifi-controlled) outlets. For my subs, based on the advice of sanjay or sudarni here (forgot, sorry guys), I bought a couple of X10 modules to control my subwoofers. One takes the 12 V trigger input to send a signal down the line, then a couple of appliance modules over at the subs' outlets control power to the subs. These days there are all sorts of IP-enabled devices, but frankly the little X10 units don't provide access to my home network so I am fine with them.

Onwards - Don

 

[Balbolito]

okay so most people who own the M2's and even some pros recommend not to EQ an M2 above Schroeder, and that's understandable since its a flat speaker. okay so same for the 708i's (surrounds)? guessing it's the same as they are nearly identical speakers?

Also how about in my case with 6 ceiling JBL control 328c speakers for atmos? i know it's best to try and hear for myself as every room is different.. but what would a good starting point be, if there was one? also not EQ above Schroeder for them?

Thanks

 

[Gooddoc]

okay so most people who own the M2's and even some pros recommend not to EQ an M2 above Schroeder, and that's understandable since its a flat speaker. okay so same for the 708i's (surrounds)? guessing it's the same as they are nearly identical speakers?

Also how about in my case with 6 ceiling JBL control 328c speakers for atmos? i know it's best to try and hear for myself as every room is different.. but what would a good starting point be, if there was one? also not EQ above Schroeder for them?

Thanks

For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.

In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.

For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.

IMO

 

[Peter M]

My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)

I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.

A good thread on this subject here.

Cheers,

 

[JonasHansen]

For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.



In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.



For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.



IMO

Why compromise in a theater? EQ the LCR for highest sound quality and EQ the surrounds speakers full range and make sure they timbre match the fronts. This will probably require some broad and gentle filters in the high frequencies.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[m. zillch]

If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.

 

[JonasHansen]

If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.

By writing the post above, you are assuming that Auto EQ systems always do the right thing?

FYI, I do agree that it can be beneficial to add EQ above Shroeder but it should be done with care. EQ'ing fullrange to match a target curve, which many AutoEQ systems do, is not doing it with care.

 

[Balbolito]

For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.

In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.

For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.

IMO

Would this apply to an auto EQ too? so EQ all speakers in all frequencies.

Also on a side note if M2's would be behind an AT screen that would induce a HF roll-off of about 2-3db starting from about 3-4k till 20k because of it's placement will an auto EQ like Audyssey in general solve that ? as i don't think it would further add the famous Audyssey roll-off on HF.

If i may ask how did you in short calibrate your setup as i think we have similar gear.

Thanks

Why compromise in a theater? EQ the LCR for highest sound quality and EQ the surrounds speakers full range and make sure they timbre match the fronts. This will probably require some broad and gentle filters in the high frequencies.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So you would EQ LCR's below Schroeder and then EQ surrounds and maybe atmos speakers full range?

If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.

Dr Toole a while back said on AVS that it would a shame to EQ the M2 above 500hz.

He even posted this image of the M2.

On the other hand, it could be true also what you said that applying EQ above Schroeder won't mess them up.

 

[Jon AA]

Also on a side note if M2's would be behind an AT screen that would induce a HF roll-off of about 2-3db starting from about 3-4k till 20k because of it's placement will an auto EQ like Audyssey in general solve that ? as i don't think it would further add the famous Audyssey roll-off on HF.

You certainly could do that with XT32 and the App. You would do it as follows: With the screen up, calibrate and limit the correction to 500 hz or so and measure the results. You'd then create a target curve and keep adjusting it/remeasuring until you get a full range correction that very closely matches the limited correction. You'd then re-do the calibration with the screen down, using this target curve. Remeasure to make sure things worked the way they were supposed to.


Getting that target curve exact will take some effort as Audyssey doesn't make it easy, but it can be done with some time and effort. I can give some pointers on that if you need some.


On the broader question of "screwing things up" by correcting full range, I see very good arguments both ways, but with a really good speaker with well controlled--nearly constant--directivity, I worry much less about it. Since the reflected sound is so similar to the direct sound, the software won't try and correct a speaker directivity issue, screwing up the direct sound in the process, because the speaker doesn't have any directivity issues the software might measure as a problem and mis-diagnose. As long as it doesn't try to correct every narrow dip or bump (as XT32 doesn't seem to, I can't speak to others) the broad changes to the target curve will act more like a tone control of sorts. Of course an inappropriate curve could sure mess things up, just as you could if you went nuts with a set of tone control knobs.