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I'm sure this question has come up, but i haven't been able to find it... How does the M2 midbass performance compare to the 4722n? Seems like the 4722n with two 15" has the edge? or is the technology in the M2 just so superior, it's no contest? Seems like sheer physics of two 15" is hard to beat?
I am a current M2 owner and previous 4722N owner. While I think the M2 is a superior overall speaker, the 4722N provide lots of mid-bass and are a way way way better bargain than the M2. At 20% of the price, you get 80% of the performance of the M2 (I know that is random math...just trying to create an analogy). If you upgrade the compression driver in the 4722N (which many have done including myself when I owned them), it might be closer to 90% of the performance.
 

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I'm sure this question has come up, but i haven't been able to find it... How does the M2 midbass performance compare to the 4722n? Seems like the 4722n with two 15" has the edge? or is the technology in the M2 just so superior, it's no contest? Seems like sheer physics of two 15" is hard to beat?
I am a current M2 owner and previous 4722N owner. While I think the M2 is a superior overall speaker, the 4722N provide lots of mid-bass and are a way way way better bargain than the M2. At 20% of the price, you get 80% of the performance of the M2 (I know that is random math...just trying to create an analogy). If you upgrade the compression driver in the 4722N (which many have done including myself when I owned them), it might be closer to 90% of the performance.
I’m sorry if this came up before, but is there any spinorama data for the 4722N?
 

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I’m sorry if this came up before, but is there any spinorama data for the 4722N?

See attached. Note that this is measured at 6m distance. I'm not sure if this is also the distance used for measuring the M2s but the fact that the 4722 is designed for larger rooms, it can look worse measured closer.
 

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M2s - awesome! Better pair with a good amp though..

As an M2 owner as part of JBL Synthesis theater, the M2 is hands-down the best speaker I've ever heard. Dialog and dynamics in spades and no harshness.

My only complaint is the JBL Synthesis amps... high power in the amplifiers = a bit of excessive hiss. I will swap these amplifiers out at some point (perhaps much lower powered Mark Levinson amplifiers).

Otherwise, pure excellence.
 

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As an M2 owner as part of JBL Synthesis theater, the M2 is hands-down the best speaker I've ever heard. Dialog and dynamics in spades and no harshness.

My only complaint is the JBL Synthesis amps... high power in the amplifiers = a bit of excessive hiss. I will swap these amplifiers out at some point (perhaps much lower powered Mark Levinson amplifiers).

Otherwise, pure excellence.
I believe the hiss you are hearing is due to the DSP being part of the amps and that the gain structure cannot be optimized as good as if one is using seperate DSP and amps. Not that the amps are high-power.

I'm using Crown Macrotech 5000i (1250w pr. channel) and it has no hiss in the speakers at all from the amps. The DSP (BSS Soundweb) do add some hiss but can be reduced significantly by gain structure optimization.
 

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I believe the hiss you are hearing is due to the DSP being part of the amps and that the gain structure cannot be optimized as good as if one is using seperate DSP and amps. Not that the amps are high-power.

I'm using Crown Macrotech 5000i (1250w pr. channel) and it has no hiss in the speakers at all from the amps. The DSP (BSS Soundweb) do add some hiss but can be reduced significantly by gain structure optimization.
Thanks for your thoughts here.

I'll have to check the JBL Synthesis amplifier manual, but I thought there was a way to bypass the DSP in these amplifiers - and was installed that way in my set up... Maybe the DSP was not bypassed on installation?
 

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Thanks for your thoughts here.



I'll have to check the JBL Synthesis amplifier manual, but I thought there was a way to bypass the DSP in these amplifiers - and was installed that way in my set up... Maybe the DSP was not bypassed on installation?
Schemantics can be seen in the manual: https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/dci-2-300n

Does not look like the ADC can be bypassed. But I might have overlooked something.

If you are considering Mark Levinsons, that would be a really good solution.. but if hiss is your primary reason for switching, then Crown Macrotech I, QSC DCA's etc should be able to fix it IMHO.

EDIT: Found the manual for SDA4600... JBL does not recommend using the analog inputs at all on the SDA amps. I find that very surprising as that basically means, that they don't recommend their own amps with the SDP-75 processor...
 

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Every post I read about the M2 is positive. Does this mean I should dump my 3-way QSC-SC2150 and go full M2s front LCR instead? ;)
That might be the best decision in HT you will ever make! most of us came from high-end to really high-end speakers in the past, nothing comes close the M2.

Also i don't think it's fair at all to compare the QSC 2150 to the M2, the price of one M2 (without the power amps) is at least 4-5 times the price of a single QSC.
 

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Schemantics can be seen in the manual: https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/dci-2-300n



Does not look like the ADC can be bypassed. But I might have overlooked something.



If you are considering Mark Levinsons, that would be a really good solution.. but if hiss is your primary reason for switching, then Crown Macrotech I, QSC DCA's etc should be able to fix it IMHO.



EDIT: Found the manual for SDA4600... JBL does not recommend using the analog inputs at all on the SDA amps. I find that very surprising as that basically means, that they don't recommend their own amps with the SDP-75 processor...
I have been in contact with Harman about this.

In Crown dciN, dciDA and synthesis SDA it's not possible bypass the dsp. It also uses 48khz internally, so all signals is downsampled if connected with Blu link or Dante at a higher samplerate.

You could also use crown dci analog series with BSS Blu with analog output if you like the sound of the synthesis amps.

Skickat från min GM1913 via Tapatalk
 

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See attached. Note that this is measured at 6m distance. I'm not sure if this is also the distance used for measuring the M2s but the fact that the 4722 is designed for larger rooms, it can look worse measured closer.
Looks pretty good. Remove some of those resonances and it's one hell of a speaker for what they cost!
 

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Going to try not to EQ above 500hz again using the MultEQ app (Audyssey) for my main 7 speakers (M2&708's) but the thing is does this even work for LCRs behind an AT screen? My HF is a bit affected because of the material in front of it. its like -4db at 5k then goes tilting down to about -9db at 20k. wouldn't that need any correction?

Only way to correct in this case the HF is to run full EQ as i know.

Thanks
 

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Going to try not to EQ above 500hz again using the MultEQ app (Audyssey) for my main 7 speakers (M2&708's) but the thing is does this even work for LCRs behind an AT screen? My HF is a bit affected because of the material in front of it. its like -4db at 5k then goes tilting down to about -9db at 20k. wouldn't that need any correction?

Only way to correct in this case the HF is to run full EQ as i know.

Thanks
It absolutely would. That would be the only situation where you would have to EQ high frequencies on a speaker such as the M2. I’m just not sure I would leave it up to Audyssey to make those adjustments. I’m not entirely sure what the correct approach for eq-ing high frequencies in this scenario is. I’ll leave it someone more knowledgeable than I.
 

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For correcting AT-screen loss, you apply gentle shelf filters (typically only one) to account for the loss.

It looks like Audyssey corrects all the nitty gritty peaks and dips in the HF range - which is exactly what you do _not_ want to do.

What screen do you have? Some of the newer screens require very little correction.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

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It absolutely would. That would be the only situation where you would have to EQ high frequencies on a speaker such as the M2. I’m just not sure I would leave it up to Audyssey to make those adjustments. I’m not entirely sure what the correct approach for eq-ing high frequencies in this scenario is. I’ll leave it someone more knowledgeable than I.
yeah i think it needs some sort of EQ there , thanks for the reply!

For correcting AT-screen loss, you apply gentle shelf filters (typically only one) to account for the loss.

It looks like Audyssey corrects all the nitty gritty peaks and dips in the HF range - which is exactly what you do _not_ want to do.

What screen do you have? Some of the newer screens require very little correction.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
SI Slate 1.2 AT

https://www.screeninnovations.com/materials/slate-at/

The shelf filter in the MultEQ (audyssey) app or in the amplifier? any example please.
 

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yeah i think it needs some sort of EQ there , thanks for the reply!



SI Slate 1.2 AT

https://www.screeninnovations.com/materials/slate-at/

The shelf filter in the MultEQ (audyssey) app or in the amplifier? any example please.
In the amplifier. Are there any leftover filters after M2 tunings have been applied?
As I mentioned before, it's not a matter of correcting dips and peaks in the HF (which it looks like Audyssey is trying to).
Exactly what to compensate for is information you should either get from Screen Innovations or measure yourself (near-field of your M2s with and without the screen).

See attached example - this is a typical compensation for screen loss. I.e. a broad gentle slope.
 

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In the amplifier. Are there any leftover filters after M2 tunings have been applied?
As I mentioned before, it's not a matter of correcting dips and peaks in the HF (which it looks like Audyssey is trying to).
Exactly what to compensate for is information you should either get from Screen Innovations or measure yourself (near-field of your M2s with and without the screen).

See attached example - this is a typical compensation for screen loss. I.e. a broad gentle slope.
Thanks, don't have any measuring mics/devices (except for Audyssey's app) and got to check out the software in the Crown tonight.
 

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They don't seem to show any measurements of exactly how much attenuation the screen causes. All they say is it starts somewhere between 1-2kHz and is at about 6db by 20kHz. Without measuring (with and without the screen in place), you can't be exactly sure how you should adjust, but maybe you can try a nice, gradual slope upwards starting around 1kHz-1.2kHz up to 20kHz, in which you'll be up about 6db at 20kHz? 6db seems like a lot to bump up frequencies at that extreme end of the spectrum. That should be a decent starting point, but I don't know what the slope of the attenuation looks like. They say it's within 3db for most of it, so it could be a gradual slope, up until the highest frequencies, at which point the slope drops off more dramatically before 20kHz.

I don't want to give you wrong information, this are just my thoughts. Jonas, what do you think of this approach? Until at least some measurements can be taken.
 
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