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What is the difference between immersion and imaging?
Imaging refers to the aspect of sound reproduction involving the perceived spatial locations of the sound source(s), both laterally and in depth. An image is considered to be good if the location of the performers or acoustic material can be clearly located in space.

Immersive sound refers to new “3D” surround sound formats which include speakers at different heights – for example, in the ceiling – to provide an even more immersive surround sound experience. Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray supportimmersive soundformats such as Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I only suggested it above because the owner has a mid-level receiver driving five Series 5 towers and this would take much of the strain off the receiver's lesser built-in amps and smaller shared power supply. It would add needed dynamic headroom and far less distortion when the system is pushed during some spirited listening sessions.



Bi-amping for the sake of bi-amping gains an infinitesimally small benefit for added expense in amplifiers and cabling (a doubling to all speakers). If you aren't using a power amplifier currently and/or subwoofers, and like to turn the volume knob a bit, I would suggest starting there and not wasting any effort on bi-amping.
Any recommendations on cheap amps?

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Discussion Starter #24
The Outlaw Audio 5000 for a 5-channel amp or an Outlaw Audio 7000x amp for a 7-channel amp.
I thought only LCR needed a three channel amp.

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I thought only LCR needed a three channel amp.

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It would be better to let a power amp drive the five large speakers at the very least. Those are the hardest on the receiver itself. I really only suggested the three channel scenario when the 580's weren't in the mix. Three channel amps are a bit more expensive anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
It would be better to let a power amp drive the five large speakers at the very least. Those are the hardest on the receiver itself. I really only suggested the three channel scenario when the 580's weren't in the mix. Three channel amps are a bit more expensive anyway.
Dan - now that I think about it, when I increase the volume high while listening to music I hear some occasional clipping, not that it bothers me. But is this what you are referring to? Obviously I want to spend as less as possible. Is getting a three channel amp an option just to drive the LCR and if so are there other brand recommendations?

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Dan - now that I think about it, when I increase the volume high while listening to music I hear some occasional clipping, not that it bothers me. But is this what you are referring to? Obviously I want to spend as less as possible. Is getting a three channel amp an option just to drive the LCR and if so are there other brand recommendations?

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Even if you're only using 3 channels the Outlaw 5000 is arguably the best value out there mixing quality and price. Plus, pushing 3 channels only will in all likelihood get you more than rated power.

https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements
 

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Does size matter?
I tend to think so, yes. Size matters. Large speakers tend to make large sounds.


Do you get the same immersive experience with smaller speakers as well?
What is the difference between immersion and imaging?
I don't fully understand what you mean when you say "immersion," but discussion about "soundstage" and "imaging" is pretty common. I typically think about it as mentally placing the band/orchestra on a stage in front of me... soundstage is how "wide" (and deep, sometimes you can get that affect to) the stage sounds like it is in front of you, and imaging is how "clearly" you can place the individual instruments (the piano is over there, the cello is over there, the lead singer is standing right there, etc).

If an "immersive" experience is one that is both "engaging" (dynamic/lively), and vivid/real (images well with a big soundstage), then a whole lot of things would play into that...


And if so what are the key parameters to look for?
I'm far from an "expert" and certainly not a professional speaker designer or reviewer, but I think a whole lot of factors go into this. Cabinet quality (resonances; when you rap/tap on them what do you hear), the size and alignment of the drivers, the quality of the crossover in between them, the types of driver's used (particularly tweeter), the size and number of woofer's used, the number of cross-overs (2-way vs. 2.5-way vs 3-way, etc), just to name a few.

There isn't a universally-accepted "perfect" solution either, as a lot of those decisions tend to have trade-offs associated with them (at least for "normal people" who are buying with something close to "normal budgets"). I believe smaller drivers tend to image better (or "more easily," at least). Larger drivers tend to play deeper and sound "bigger". Horn tweeters can have a tendency (but not always) to sound dynamic and lively (and sometimes to the point of harsh and fatiguing). Ribbon tweeters tend to sound a bit more relaxed and laid back. Cabinet quality/rigidity drives up price.


I have the 590's as well. Fantastic speaker. Whether or not you can get the same immersive experience with smaller speakers depends on the speaker in question. Generally though the answer is yes as far as imaging is concerned. If you are so interested I recently did a bookshelf speaker shootout that you might find informative, might serve to answer some questions.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/3131998-bookshelf-speaker-shootout.html
+1. I thoroughly enjoyed reading and following along with this thread... check it out. Worth a read.

Don't get me Wrong, the 590/530 are great Speakers, especially for the price you paid.

All I'm saying is there are better Speakers.

Ascend
Salk
Seaton
Starke

Just to name a few.
+1 and agreed with this. I own a pair of JBL Studio 530's, as well as a nice little assortment of other gear, including Klipsch RP-600m's, Emp Tek r5Bi's, Edifier S2000 Pro's, Polk Monitor 70 series II towers, and Ascend Sierra towers with the RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade. Those represent a pretty wide variety of gear, that comes in a pretty wide variety of sizes (from 7.5 lb bookshelves with one 5.25" woofer, to 45+lb towers with four 6.5" woofers), uses a pretty wide variety of tweeter technologies (soft dome silk tweeters, aluminum dome tweeters, horn-loaded tweeters, planar diaphragm tweeters, and RAAL ribbon tweeters), and hit a pretty wide range of price points (the most expensive one cost 11x-12x what the cheapest ones cost me)...

The JBL Studio 5 series is a quality speaker series. I think my 530's image well and have a nice pleasant smooth sound signature. They don't *rock* as loudly or sound as dynamic as my Klipsch RP-600m's. They don't *sparkle* with what I like to call that "classic HiFi sound signature" the way the Emp Tek's do from RBH. The wide dispersion, big sound stage, and smoothness reminds me a bit of my Ascend Sierra's, but the Sierra's have a level of clarity and an authoritative midrange to them that my JBLs lack, as well as an effortless high end that extends on above what I believe the JBL's are capable of. I also paid considerably (10x?) more for them... and I have spent a long time (more than 10 years) acquiring, configuring, playing with, and listening to all that gear. If this is your first serious setup and speaker system, you have done/are doing better than I did when I first started... they're excellent bang-for-the-buck speakers, IMO, and make for a very worthy AVS-forums-approved home theater music-and-movies setup.
 

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Dan - now that I think about it, when I increase the volume high while listening to music I hear some occasional clipping, not that it bothers me. But is this what you are referring to? Obviously I want to spend as less as possible. Is getting a three channel amp an option just to drive the LCR and if so are there other brand recommendations?

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I would just get the Outlaw Audio 5000. Buying for just three speakers is more expensive anyway you slice it.


https://outlawaudio.com/shop/index.php?id_product=27&rewrite=model-5000&controller=product
 

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Any recommendations on cheap amps?
I'd try the Crown XLS class D amps first, available on Amazon with easy returns. They run cool and have gobs of power for very little money.
 

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Any recommendations on cheap amps?
I'd try the Crown XLS class D amps first, available on Amazon with easy returns. They run cool and have gobs of power for very little money.
They're more money than the Outlaw 5000 because he needs 5 channels of amplification at least.
 

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They're more money than the Outlaw 5000 because he needs 5 channels of amplification at least.
True, but I was going on the assumption he'd just need to externally amp his two front mains for music listening, since he wrote:

now that I think about it, when I increase the volume high while listening to music I hear some occasional clipping,

@genaccmiller
Do you listen to music in 2-channel mode? If you don't, I'd recommend trying this first since most receivers put out significantly more power in stereo than in multichannel.

Plus, music recorded in 2 channel sounds much better played back in 2 channel, imo. Upmixed fake surround just sounds terrible to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
True, but I was going on the assumption he'd just need to externally amp his two front mains for music listening, since he wrote:






@genaccmiller

Do you listen to music in 2-channel mode? If you don't, I'd recommend trying this first since most receivers put out significantly more power in stereo than in multichannel.



Plus, music recorded in 2 channel sounds much better played back in 2 channel, imo. Upmixed fake surround just sounds terrible to me.
I listen to music playing on all channels. It sounds truly immersive.

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I listen to music playing on all channels. It sounds truly immersive.
I would try it in 2 channel sometime; with those big 590s you should be able to get all the immersiveness from just two up front, assuming they're properly positioned and you're sitting in the sweet spot.
 
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