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To follow up on my post about the subwoofers disappearing when Dirac is enabled, that seems to be on the Bluetooth input only.

Please don’️t use Bluetooth, when you have Airplay and Google Cast 🙂 please please please


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What's the advantage? Is that specific input?
 

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Well, they don't present any actual evidence that low levels of electronic distortion are audible, only that its possible they might be audible.
They don't provide any references of published papers that those levels are audible.
They are a manufacturer who makes very low noise and and low distortion electronics, which measure superbly.
It is of course in their vested interest to convince potential customers that these low levels are audible, so people should buy their products.
I having nothing against Benchmark, I think they make great products. I just don't find these notes compelling at all.
 

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What's the advantage? Is that specific input?

Bluetooth is lossy ... airplay and google cast are lossless. That is between your phone and the device there is no compression applied.


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Well, they don't present any actual evidence that low levels of electronic distortion are audible, only that its possible they might be audible.
They don't provide any references of published papers that those levels are audible.
They are a manufacturer who makes very low noise and and low distortion electronics, which measure superbly.
It is of course in their vested interest to convince potential customers that these low levels are audible, so people should buy their products.
I having nothing against Benchmark, I think they make great products. I just don't find these notes compelling at all.

A few years ago when I was into Head-fi I had bought a Bemchmark DAC-1. A fantastic DAC that measured really well, but was so transparent and harsh that I could not listen to my Beyerdynamic T1 for more than 30 minutes. I switched that out to a Lavry DA1 - again a great DAC that measured good but not as great as Benchmark but paired much much better.

A long way of saying for all the transparency and measured goodness, it just didn’t pair well with my headphones and sometimes in AV what sounds good is more important than what measures really well. TBH if you are watching a movie and a 2nd order harmonics is bothering you then something is wrong - you are only listening to your equipment and not the movie.

Think about it for about 3K you get 16 channels, Dirac, AirPlay, google cast, Rune, Balanced outputs .... I think AV40 is a fantastic value and it sounds really really good. That’s $188 per channel! My amps are more $ per channel!

Measurements while important are not be all end all!

Speakers > Room > Source > AV processor > Amplifier is the relative order of importance in an audio chain. With the Speaker and Room way way higher than source and AV processor. Dirac and now Dirac BM are beat in class Room Correction and is worth the premium! All this bashing of the JBL and Arcam for measurements that do not matter / are not audible and are way surpassed by the gains from Dirac is pointless and given more importance than it deserves!

ASR says Anthem MRX 520 measures better than AV40 and as a former owner (of 720) I can tell you it doesn’t sound 50% as good as AV40. Anthem Room correction Genesis is a joke! their grounding that bleeds 60Hz into RCA outputs is way worse than any measurements that they might be better at!


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A few years ago when I was into Head-fi I had bought a Bemchmark DAC-1. A fantastic DAC that measured really well, but was so transparent and harsh that I could not listen to my Beyerdynamic T1 for more than 30 minutes.
What does this even mean? It’s either transparent or not. If you’re equating transparency with harshness you’re mixing up the definitions. I understand there are a million reviews from Stereophile and similar sources who say such things in their reviews, but those people are writing stories and don’t do blind testing. They are heavily biased by the companies advertising in their magazine.

Here’s a great intro into transparent products:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subjective-descriptors-for-audible-transparency-that-arent-bs.12184/

All that said the DAC1 had its issues and maybe that’s what you heard. Here’s the reviewed link at ASR, and here is a pertinent quote from that review.
Regardless, this is a very poor showing. The DAC1 USB is OK for CD 16 bit playback but errors climb pretty high for high-res.”
 

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Can any of you guys that already have the unit give a little insight on the implementation of Auro 2D vs 3D as a music upmixer?
I had Auro 2D on my previous Marantz pre/pro, so I think it is part of the license FWIW. However, I prefer Auro 3D VERY much for upmixing. In fact, after adding it to my Marantz, it became a must-have feature for me. Part of the reason I like it is because I listen to a lot of classical music and Auro 3D realizes that big-room acoustic I'm used to hearing in a concert hall. Plus, with smaller combo jazz, for instance, applying a slightly more "intimate" config of Auro 3D (changing from Large to Medium and perhaps reducing the Strength setting) goes far to suggest a nightclub acoustical space.
 

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I had Auro 2D on my previous Marantz pre/pro, so I think it is part of the license FWIW. However, I prefer Auro 3D VERY much for upmixing. In fact, after adding it to my Marantz, it became a must-have feature for me. Part of the reason I like it is because I listen to a lot of classical music and Auro 3D realizes that big-room acoustic I'm used to hearing in a concert hall. Plus, with smaller combo jazz, for instance, applying a slightly more "intimate" config of Auro 3D (changing from Large to Medium and perhaps reducing the Strength setting) goes far to suggest a nightclub acoustical space.

Sounds nice, thanks. So you're saying you greatly prefer 3D to 2D. I just speculated that maybe it wasn't part of the license because Auro themselves don't seem to mention it and I have just learned of at least two different implementations of 2D, meaning that maybe the pre-pro makers have some autonomy with it. The different ways had to do with use of the rear, ear-level channels. Is Auro fully enabled on the SDP?
 

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Anyone tried a simple tone sweep with Dirac BM enabled?

My results are pretty awful.

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (Auro Native On):
Complete corruption of the sound, unusable

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (DTS HD Only):
No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (Source decoding to PCM):
No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)

If I change to using a preset from the same Dirac project without Dirac BM Upmix applied then it works fine.
 

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Anyone tried a simple tone sweep with Dirac BM enabled?

My results are pretty awful.

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (Auro Native On):
Complete corruption of the sound, unusable

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (DTS HD Only):
No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)

Auro Demo Stepped Tone Test (Source decoding to PCM):
No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)

If I change to using a preset from the same Dirac project without Dirac BM Upmix applied then it works fine.

Well this is a bummer for both owners and holding off until the processor is mostly bug free.
Thanks for your testing work and sharing Krobar!
 

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As of 1.32:

Things still waiting on implementation:
DTS:X Pro
Logic 16 (Still in development, reported to sound a bit better in 1.32)

Future Upgrades:
HDMI 2.1 (unclear if this was actually promised or just said was possible but undecided)

Previous issues to validate state on 1.32:
Auro 2D or 3D mode is much lower than when played in stereo or 16ch stereo - Is this an issue or just normal (Because of playback function)?
Abilitiy to play a DTS CD and get sound
Auro Native - The less common Auro 13.1 and Auro 11.1 (7+4) formats do not work.
3D: OSD missing grey background in 3D and 3D 1080P reported as 1920*2205 (3D itself works fine)
DD+ 1.5mbit (AKA Universal HDDVD) via Kodi does not work - All other DD+ issues I previously had have been fixed
Dirac with 24/88+ Audio and DTS processing modes does not work - Other have reported this issue
Corrupted OSD - If I programmatically start my TV and the AV40 at the same time the OSD corrupts - Adding a 1.5 second delay to starting the AV40 fixes this completely.

Dirac:

Enable dirac, modify the delay of the left front sky channel will affect the delay of other channels
Enable dirac, it often causes popping sounds

Things still broken:
Faint clicking sounds and occasional chirping sounds (1 Report so far - Anyone else have this?)
Playing 96kHz audio FLACs in Dolby, DTS, or Auro surround mode just plays random digital noises
Audible "Thump" on mute/unmute

Dirac:
Enable dirac,the sky speakers delay is incorrect


Dirac Bass Control:
Tone Test (Auro Native On): Complete corruption of the sound, unusable
Tone Test (DTS HD Only): No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)
Tone Test (Source decoding to PCM): No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)
Bluetooth input: No redirection of bass to subwoofer

Other Items:
Noise floor challenges? (Should this be a thing like a broken or ????)

Validated Fixed List:
Enable dirac,play Atmos,the center channel lost dirac
No analogue audio working in main zone with V1.28
Enable dirac,left and right surround and right back surround modification delay is invalid
 
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@ theblackangus: don't you have an audible "thump" through all speakers when using the (un)mute function?

I've had this on all previous FW versions and still have on 1.32, but as I don't see any mention of it in your summary...
 
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As of 1.32:

Things still waiting on implementation:
DTS:X Pro
Logic 16 (Still in development, reported to sound a bit better in 1.32)

Future Upgrades:
HDMI 2.1 (unclear if this was actually promised or just said was possible but undecided)

Previous issues to validate state on 1.32:
Auro 2D or 3D mode is much lower than when played in stereo or 16ch stereo
Abilitiy to play a DTS CD and get sound
Auro Native - The less common Auro 13.1 and Auro 11.1 (7+4) formats do not work.
3D: OSD missing grey background in 3D and 3D 1080P reported as 1920*2205 (3D itself works fine)
DD+ 1.5mbit (AKA Universal HDDVD) via Kodi does not work - All other DD+ issues I previously had have been fixed
Dirac with 24/88+ Audio and DTS processing modes does not work - Other have reported this issue
No analogue audio working in main zone with V1.28 - This works for most people and does not really effect me as I only really use analogue in Z2 where it is fine.
Corrupted OSD - If I programmatically start my TV and the AV40 at the same time the OSD corrupts - Adding a 1.5 second delay to starting the AV40 fixes this completely.

Dirac:
Enable dirac,play Atmos,the center channel lost dirac
Enable dirac,left and right surround and right back surround modification delay is invalid
Enable dirac,the sky speakers and front speakers have a significant delay difference
Enable dirac, modify the delay of the left front sky channel will affect the delay of other channels
Enable dirac, it often causes popping sounds

Things still broken:
Faint clicking sounds and occasional chirping sounds (1 Report so far - Anyone else have this?)
Playing 96kHz audio FLACs in Dolby, DTS, or Auro surround mode just plays random digital noises

Dirac:
Tone Test (Auro Native On + Dirac): Complete corruption of the sound, unusable
Tone Test (DTS HD Only + Dirac): No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)
Tone Test (Source decoding to PCM + Dirac): No redirection of bass to subwoofer at all (Lowest tones are slient)
Bluetooth input and Dirac Bass Control: No redirection of bass to subwoofer

Validated Fixed List:
I can confirm these 2 are fixed in 1.32:
Enable dirac,play Atmos,the center channel lost dirac
No analogue audio working in main zone with V1.28

There is a good chance others in the "Enable Dirac.." list are fixed in 1.32 too but will need to hear back from the original poster. Last list should be labelled Dirac BM, none of the issues I reported there occur if BM is not enabled.
 

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@ theblackangus: don't you have an audible "thump" through all speakers when using the (un)mute function?

I've had this on all previous FW versions and still have on 1.32, but as I don't see any mention of it in your summary...

Thanks - Added.
 

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I can confirm these 2 are fixed in 1.32:
Enable dirac,play Atmos,the center channel lost dirac
No analogue audio working in main zone with V1.28

There is a good chance others in the "Enable Dirac.." list are fixed in 1.32 too but will need to hear back from the original poster. Last list should be labelled Dirac BM, none of the issues I reported there occur if BM is not enabled.

Updated and changed.
Thanks for the input good sir!
 

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This one is not an issue for me at all:
Auro 2D or 3D mode is much lower than when played in stereo or 16ch stereo

All channel stereo is a fair bit louder but that is the case for many brands of AVR and completely normal IMHO. Would be good to hear back from a few other users to see if this is a genuine issue in most configs.
 

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I need to measure DBM to see what it did. I liked it yesterday, but I'm not sure after more listening. It's definitely emphasizing some frequencies.

I'll have to do another calibration anyway since the noise is back since I raised my amp gains too much.

I should've compared MSO to BM with REW, but I'm at the point where I'm tired of measuring and doing sweeps with this hobby.

I do believe that DBM would be better in the Monoprice unit with PEQ available before and after per channel. Harman needs to add this.
 

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1.32 released. One major fix for me found already. Dirac now applies correcvtly to the centre channel for Atmos content and the one surround/back missing Dirac in multiple configurations appears to be fixed too :)
@jeanlee20xx are the timing issues fixed?
Hi!
Krobar
I tried the 1.32 firmware,Fortunately, with dirac turned on, the problem with the center channel of ATMOS has been fixed, and the surround channel seems to be normal too.
But,the delay modification of the sky channel is still invalid, and the channel modification delay of the subwoofer Channel is also invalid.
In addition, there is a problem with the firmware version 1.32 and the previous version, that is, the low frequency of the main channel seems to be too much, sometimes there will be humming, especially vocal dialogue.
 

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Well, they don't present any actual evidence that low levels of electronic distortion are audible, only that its possible they might be audible.
They don't provide any references of published papers that those levels are audible.
They are a manufacturer who makes very low noise and and low distortion electronics, which measure superbly.
It is of course in their vested interest to convince potential customers that these low levels are audible, so people should buy their products.
I having nothing against Benchmark, I think they make great products. I just don't find these notes compelling at all.
FWIW, they did some internal testing ABX testing compared to a .01% (80 dB SINAD) amplifier:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/power-amplifiers-the-importance-of-the-first-watt
This analysis seems reasonable. Very few amps provide or a reviewed with an emphasis on the first watt.
BTW, even First Watt amps with no crossover distortion have 1'st watt performance that is not SOA.


For processors, It is reasonable to expect that $4K+ products exhibit good measurements as a baseline because they need the headroom that a 2-channel DAC does not.

Attenuation, between 10 and say 18 dB is needed to preserve channel balance with Dirac and other PEQ and bass management is applied for 13 channels.
If a product is starting with 70 dB (0.03 THD+N) baseline SINAD, then DIRAC may make it subjectively good, but by objective standards, these are not transparent processors. I suspect the $10K+ are not better. Most, have little or no specifications.
They cost a lot, so the reviews will be outstanding :p

- Rich
 

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Hi!
Krobar
I tried the 1.32 firmware,Fortunately, with dirac turned on, the problem with the center channel of ATMOS has been fixed, and the surround channel seems to be normal too.
But,the delay modification of the sky channel is still invalid, and the channel modification delay of the subwoofer Channel is also invalid.
In addition, there is a problem with the firmware version 1.32 and the previous version, that is, the low frequency of the main channel seems to be too much, sometimes there will be humming, especially vocal dialogue.

Thanks!
I have updated my problem tracking list accordingly. Anything else you notice was fixed?
 
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