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Discussion Starter #1
JTR Cap S1 Vs PSA S3600I or V3600I:

Hello, Im comparing the above mainly due to price. I would like to know if there is anyone that can comment on them based on personal experience, if not.. if you have any insight on the comparison. Being so close in price, not a factor really.

Still working on selling my PB13 ultras, once they are sold, looking to get one of the above.
So, all 3 have 18 inch drivers... the PSA's have dual. I understand the power output is higher on the Cap.. and I would think it would go down lower due to looking like it would have more xmax travel. But again, there are dual 18s in the PSA's.

From the specs:
Cap S1 - 16-157hz (under 10hz in room performance)
S3600 - 17Hz-200Hz +/-3dB (7Hz-11Hz typical in-room extension)
V3600 - 16Hz-200Hz +/-3dB (11Hz-14Hz typical in-room extension)

looks like the Cap S1 and S3600 will be neck and neck in going down to single digit..

Whats your opinion?
 

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JTR S2 was tested by Data-bass. According to Jeff, S1 is -5 dB from S2 ( -3 dB for 1 driver / 50% enclosure volume, and -2 dB for less power, 2400W vs 4000W amp.)
 

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There was a lengthy um, discussion, on another thread that you should find helpful. It compared the Cap 1400 to the V3600. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2534345-sub-choose.html

I think that the S1 is an amazing sub from the specs, but the question about room size is a very pertinent one to me. Coming from dual ported subs, dual sealed may not give you quite what you are looking for.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)

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OK, im going to try my hardest to get room dimensions tonight.. With the hours I work, I usually crash in bed as soon as I get home. Here is some info on my room... Its "L" shaped, so it sux.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2513185-opinion-needed-thinking-selling-pb13-ultra-x2-captivator-4000-ulf-2.html


Edit: I have been needing to update that thread... soo busy thooo:(

I remember reading that thread now. As I recall, you were running your PB13's in sealed mode, which frankly they aren't really designed for, marketing aside. It sort of strangles their output. ;) Sealed versus the 16Hz port tune, where they operate best, is a 10db to 12db difference between 12.5Hz and 25Hz, and then tapers off above about 31.5Hz to just a db or two. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

But that deep bass response is what most of us are trying to achieve. No wonder they were running out of gas in sealed mode. I can't really tell room dimensions from that diagram, but again, going from dual PB's (although in sealed mode), and wanting more output, I would probably still lean toward ported subs.
 

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Oh yea I believe your are right. I forgot the OP has the large L shaped room. Better stick with Cap1400 or V3600i.
Agreed. Both very good options.
I agree with both of you. I think both subs would work well in his situation. IMO you can't really go wrong with either company or sub.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
How large is your room? In a larger space, I'd go ported - V3600i or Captivator 1400. In a smaller space, the S1 should be pretty awesome. :cool:
Im sorry for not updating this thread, been so damn busy. the theater section of the "L" is 12 ft x 27ft, the other section is 11ft x 7ft and opens up to the stairs going up.


I remember reading that thread now. As I recall, you were running your PB13's in sealed mode, which frankly they aren't really designed for, marketing aside. It sort of strangles their output. ;) Sealed versus the 16Hz port tune, where they operate best, is a 10db to 12db difference between 12.5Hz and 25Hz, and then tapers off above about 31.5Hz to just a db or two. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

But that deep bass response is what most of us are trying to achieve. No wonder they were running out of gas in sealed mode. I can't really tell room dimensions from that diagram, but again, going from dual PB's (although in sealed mode), and wanting more output, I would probably still lean toward ported subs.
I have run all 3 modes, but the two main ones being sealed and 16hz. there does not seem to be all that much of a difference in how the sub seems to run out of steam when it comes to hitting low and hard. Sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high.


Oh yea I believe your are right. I forgot the OP has the large L shaped room. Better stick with Cap1400 or V3600i.
Im still banging my head around what one to go with. Got a buddy buying one of the PB13s when he moves into his home (being built) once I have cash in hand, ill be buing my next sub. my budget maxes out right around $2k (not worried about shipping cost) The specs on the PSA subs look good (if they are accurate?) but the JTR S1 having more power, I assume would help me with my "expectations" of the sub that would make me happy. If that makes sense? Out of the 3, what would hit the hardest and lowest without distortion? That is my main goal. Im doing what I can to be able to swing the JTR Cap 4k ULF, but I dont think that is going to happen.
 

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I would stick with ported subs in your room.

If you want "hitting the hardest and lowest without distortion", look no further than JTR Cap 1400.

Compare with S1, which is -5dB from S2, Cap 1400 is +1 dB @ 12 Hz, +8.2 dB @ 16 Hz, +5.9 dB @ 20 Hz and +4.5 dB @ 25 Hz.
 

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Im sorry for not updating this thread, been so damn busy. the theater section of the "L" is 12 ft x 27ft, the other section is 11ft x 7ft and opens up to the stairs going up.


I have run all 3 modes, but the two main ones being sealed and 16hz. there does not seem to be all that much of a difference in how the sub seems to run out of steam when it comes to hitting low and hard. Sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high.


Im still banging my head around what one to go with. Got a buddy buying one of the PB13s when he moves into his home (being built) once I have cash in hand, ill be buing my next sub. my budget maxes out right around $2k (not worried about shipping cost) The specs on the PSA subs look good (if they are accurate?) but the JTR S1 having more power, I assume would help me with my "expectations" of the sub that would make me happy. If that makes sense? Out of the 3, what would hit the hardest and lowest without distortion? That is my main goal. Im doing what I can to be able to swing the JTR Cap 4k ULF, but I dont think that is going to happen.
The Cap 4000 ULF would be fantastic if you could swing it, but I completely understand. That's a lot of money. I agree with Chucky's advice to stay with a ported sub. I don't think that your expectations are too high at all. But there are certain things required to meet them. IMO, the first thing you need is solid (loud and undistorted) response down to 20Hz. Once you have that, you focus on getting that same response down to 15Hz, and below. A good ported sub such as the V3600 or the Cap 1400 will do both of those things. Obviously, placement is critical, but you have already worked on that. Now, you need sheer output down to about 15Hz or so, and the extra output of ported subs down to a little below their tuning point will be far greater than that of comparable sealed subs, as Chucky described above.

Personally, my own preference in the $2000 price range would probably be for the Cap 14, but I don't think you would be disappointed in the 3600, either. But in this case, I would rule out the S1.

Regards,
Mike
 

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With an odd shaped room, I think I'd rather have two PB13 Ultras than any ONE of those subs. What am I missing? Do you plan on immediately saving up for duals of one of those that you get? At the very least I'd hold off on selling them unless you've borrowed one of those or something.

Another caveat, don't get caught up in one single aspect of a sub like driver size or driver travel. Subs are always a driver/box/amp concert, and all three have several important aspects. But what's most important is how they all work together.
 

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If WAF is not a concern, always get the biggest and most powerful sub you can afford. In this case, I would just get a cap1400 since it has been tested and you know exactly what you're getting against your pb13u (almost double the output vs. your single svs throughout the passband).
 

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Understanding that the price of the Cap 4000 ULF may put it out of reach, one other possibility that would be worth considering is the Cap 218HT. It would be a couple of hundred more than a Cap 14, but it also offers about 2db more than the Cap 14 below 40Hz, and about 4db more above 40 Hz. At most frequencies, it would be equivalent to two PB13's, and at some frequencies it would be equivalent to three or a little more.

The size is about the same as the 4000 ULF, but it appears that you would have the space to accommodate either one. Just a thought! :)
 
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