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I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.
 

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Honestly lot of blur is source inherent too. I see blur on my CRT, go figure. The only thing that bothers me about plasma is that phosphors wear out and dim over time. But I am still going to buy a plasma for my living room. I have a 52xbr6 in my bedroom, and imo it looks great.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly /forum/post/15450011


I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.

1. Obviously, you are a little confuse about 120Hz and motionflow or amp. They are not the same and you can turn it, motionflow or amp, off if you wish it is always refreshing at 120Hz.


2. Yeah, depends on the content. As they always say, "Garbage in, garbage out..." And of course, the easiest thing to do is to blame the tv.


3. Look at #2.


4. Must not calibrated it correctly then.
 

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I had a panny and it was dull white on ice hockey you need to get a led LCD TV and watch a hockey game and then tell me your view on the two
 

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Is there such a thing as a 'plasma troll' on these forums?
 

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I am a plasma guy myself however the brightness issue is one thing that LCD's will have over plasma. Plasmas do not currently have brightness to compare with the white levels on LCD's. If you are willing to wait Panasonic has their Neo PDP's which are supposed to deliver better brightness coming out in their next generation. However I will give fair warning that the brightness of an LCD will not likely be beat out by a plasma. Comes down to preference though.
 

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The biggest exaggeration with current LCD's (CCFL's at least) are their black levels. Without the various dynamic backlight dimming features (Dynamic Contrast, Power Saving Modes, Etc..) black levels are still very poor in a light controlled environment when 50%+ of an image is shadow and dark detail. I was very surprised to see my old XBR1 is relatively comparable to my 650 with both backlights at 30% (3/10) and all the aforementioned features off. This fact is definitely misrepresented in reviews that do their fL measurements with these types of features on, even though they are not preferred due to their introduction of larger problems like white crush and black crush. It's even worse when they're directly compared to the native black levels of the cheaper plasmas when in actuality the plasmas blow the native black levels of the LCD's completely out of the water.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly /forum/post/15450011


I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.

1. You obviously don't know what the difference between 120hz and AMP is or how to correctly implement interpolation.


2. See #1


3. SD, 720, 1080i can look fantastic on a 200" display if you know what you're doing.


4. LCD's, when calibrated PROPERLY, like in standard/movie mode with everything toned down, still gives you a white that doen't look like it's from the bottom of Loch Ness.


Enjoy your plasma. Make sure you break it in properly. By the year 2013 it should be fine and you'll be able to enjoy it to it's fullest, just make sure you hold off having any children till then also.
 

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Show room settings are always bad for both LCD and Plasma. Plasma looks dim and most videophiles that love LCD's even hate the "torch mode" of a store setting. With that being said I own a 60 inch Elite Kuro and it is plenty bright for me or anyone who has ever viewed my set. It isn't like it is maxed out or anythying. Also if you get the isf modes unlocked you can have them crank it up even more while maintaining an accurate gray scale and colors without clipping whites.


I have no agenda here. I think many LCD's have fantastic pictures, but I assure you Plasmas are not dim either. At least mine isn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly /forum/post/15450011


I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.

If you really want to buy another HDTV that has a superior picture without a doubt, buy a Pio Elite. The Panny 08 Plasmas are overrated in my opinion although they do look nice so don't get me wrong. I just doubt they'll look better than the 4100/a650 unless you're viewing them at angles.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly /forum/post/15450011


I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.

C'mon what one of the boy's is using another screen name.


Come clean.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband /forum/post/15457725


C'mon what one of the boy's is using another screen name.


Come clean.

Kind of gives you the idea what it's like reading one of your LCD rants.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther /forum/post/15457278


With that being said I own a 60 inch Elite Kuro and it is plenty bright for me or anyone who has ever viewed my set. It isn't like it is maxed out or anythying. Also if you get the isf modes unlocked you can have them crank it up even more while maintaining an accurate gray scale and colors without clipping whites.


I have no agenda here. I think many LCD's have fantastic pictures, but I assure you Plasmas are not dim either. At least mine isn't.

Definitly,

Some of the top calibrators have gotten the 9G elites up 51fl in ISF modes without issues.

I don't see any reason to go brighter than that.


I haven't even activated the ISF modes yet and mine is plenty bright for my home.


Plasmas are not dim.

They may look that way in natural mode next to an LCD in torch mode on a showroom floor, but at home they are plent bright for most people.
 

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My 46" 1080p panasonic plasma is plenty bright and-- despite comments from the lcd defense patrol-- produces the color white just fine thank-you.

In fact I just watched the detroit-chicago game at wrigley field on the 1st, looked fantastic! Had it on in both rooms, on the 46" and my 37" lcd.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly /forum/post/15450011


I have had the 52W4100 and the have the LN52A650 and I have some serious issues with them.

1.Turning on the 120hz Motion flow/equiv at all on either of these sets creates the much talked about "soap opera effect". As far as I am concerned, this effect rips the intended experience away from the film even on low.


2. The ghosting and lag on these sets makes me sea sick. I do not understand how all of these videophiles find this in any way acceptable. This blur is realy bad with amp on medium or high or off. Low is not too bad but depends on content.


3. Forget what the masses try to cram down your throat. If you sit 8-10 feet away from your set and watch content other than blue rays, DO NOT GO WITH A 52" set. My percieved video quality on 1080i directv content went right down the crapper. Every imperfection is largely magnified. My 42" seemed a hair small and as a guy, a 52" seemed like bliss, but the definition on anything other than BR disks seems really bad. IMO 46" is my limit for this distanse and 50" for plasma.


4. The reason I went LCD was becasue I did not like the dim look of the plasmas. What I did not realize is that after you calibrate these LCD sets, they end up MUCH more dim and washed out than when in the show room where they had everything jacked.


Now I still am concerned with the dimness of plasma, does this bother anyone after a bit of time or does it always seem dim? My Panny 42PX50U was a bit dim but the picture was awesome and did a way better job on SD content. Also, and the biggest thing, at 50" on the 700U will I see the motion blur inherent with LCD go away completely. Will I get the natural movent that I so want to see and seemd to have with my old panny plasma.


IMO LCD blows chunks. Please give me a reason to jump ship. And BTW the samsung is a dust magent from hell. My 42PX50U NEVER needed dusting. It didnot have a rediculous huge gloss bezel.


Amen....amen....

Quote:
1. You obviously don't know what the difference between 120hz and AMP is or how to correctly implement interpolation.

Seriously...maybe you dont know the difference, but we all knew what he was referring to, and thats exactly what the samsung sony and all the other stupid companies call it...and yes, unless your blind, it makes movies look like claymations (the processing, not the 120hz). To give an example, remember when you would watch a movie on your old CRT 4:3, and you would be watching a scene and it would pan ever so slightly, but it seemed as if the camera didnt move to do the pan. Well it was an effect created by moving the 'viewing' box within the scene which was originally shot in 16:10 so you can see the other side of the shot or center in on the actors, it was this really fake looking pan....thats exactly what this processing does, give it a really fake fake fake lame pathetic look that inferior LCD needs to use to make up for its shortcomings. An LCD pixel can only change so fast....so no matter how many extra fake frames you throw at it, it will never be able to go faster than its physical properties allow it to change...which is why LCD will never be good with anything other than still shots....so unless your using the technology for digital picture frames, it is a sad successor to CRT....


The only real benefit to using a 120hz panel, would be to remove the occasional artifacts created when using a 3:2 (in reality 2:3) pull-down because it doesn't need to do it anymore. BUTTTTTT super LCD man....if you did your research, no LCD on the market does a true 5:5 pull down....so tell me where the real benefit of paying a butt load more money on technology that doesn't do anything....well done to their marketing company for brainwashing you into thinking you know something, oh and kudos on using interpolation...well done


I'm also going to say that i'm not impressed by either technology, we can grow a human ear on a mouse, make artificial hearts yet we created two flat panel technologies that inferior to CRT in so many ways....but, since we dont have that many choices, i'd have to pick the better of the two, which is plasma....hands down...and their cheaper!!!!


one day you will take your old LCD out of the attic and laugh that you actually thought it looked good.....
 

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I bought a 42" Samsung plasma for 1 daughter and a 50" Panasonic plasma for another daughter(I'm holding our for a 58" for myself). These are wonderful displays with absolutely no IR, plenty of brightness and realistic pictures, no motion problems, full viewing angle, but maybe with a very small problem with glare while the TV's are on. I can not understand why LCD with motion problems washed out viewing angles and higher prices remain so popular. To each his own, I guess.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomnan24 /forum/post/15464540


I bought a 42" Samsung plasma for 1 daughter and a 50" Panasonic plasma for another daughter(I'm holding our for a 58" for myself). These are wonderful displays with absolutely no IR, plenty of brightness and realistic pictures, no motion problems, full viewing angle, but maybe with a very small problem with glare while the TV's are on. I can not understand why LCD with motion problems washed out viewing angles and higher prices remain so popular. To each his own, I guess.

I think LCD's look a little sharper than Plasmas simply because they don't use dithering like Plasmas do. They also use up less energy, don't have any image retention, no threat of burn-in and they're also great for computer usage. They also tend to be brighter. Plasma's do have better motion resolution and viewing angles though. Anyway, I intend on purchasing a 58+ inch HDTV late this year or early next and if the 09 Panny/Sammy Plasma models can really output true blacks, I'm sold.
 
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