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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ive done SO much research throughout these here internets that my head is about to fall off.


ok short story, had a 360, was spoiled by its scaling ability, bought a PS3 and still have yet to find a TV/monitor where it looks good.


ive been through 3 HDCP monitors until i settled on this samsung 2333hdtv.

i bought it to run my PC and PS3 and for the PC its perfect.


for the PS3, when i run any game in 720p its looks grainy, aliased and generally bad.


almost as if the image is being "zoomed in" is about the only way i can explain, kinda like if you have a j-peg and you keep zooming in until its pixelated.


i have one native 1080 PS3 game and it looks tolerable to decent. but anything below 1080 looks like hell. some worse than others.


i have tried an HDMI to DVI cable (only once and not that long) mostly play it on HDMI, but i even tried my component cables as well just to see if there was a difference.


one weird thing i noticed is under "input" in the monitor menu, you can pre select a name to go beside the actual inputs of the monitor, like- DVD player, bluray player, TV, game, VCR, digital media adapter and many more.


usually when running the PS3 via the HDMI cable on the HDMI 1 input ise;ect "game or bluray". i tried selected PC once to see if it changed anything while in the PS3 XMB and the screen actually went black, changed something and came back looking a little different.


i tried that because when i used my HDMI to DVI i wondered how the TV differentiates between whats hooked up where and noticed that if you select PC for any other input it changes the image slightly, (but not enough for a fix).




does anyone here have any advice for me? ive been going a little crazy trying to figure this one out, thanks in advance guys.


sorry for all the run on.


cheers.
 

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Any content sent to your 1080p Samsung that is designed for or sent at a resolution less then 1080p will look grainy since the upscaling of a lower resolution such as 720 requires that 1/2 of the pixel content for the monitor be invented and the method to do this may just be done by duplicating content which of course will look grainy especially at short viewing distances.

To eliminate the grainy problem you need to play games designed for 1080p or at a minimum send them to the monitor at 1080i over component or at 1080p over VGA.

Using HDMI or DVI will not improve the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
wow this is the best info i have received so far. THANK YOU!!!


what i was going to say, is my TV (since its more a monitor) forcing the PS3 to always run at 1080p because thats its native res, even though it says its running in 1280x720p when i click on my remotes info?


because i noticde a few problems i had on my PC where i would click "select native res" in my nvidia control panel and it would be 1920x1080, but when i hit the remotes "info" button it was saying 1680x1050???


i have tried running the component cables to no avail. i have tried HDMI in both HDMI slot 1 and 2. i have tried HDMI to DVI. but i have not tried VGA, you think its worth attempting to finagle a cable with converters to get a VGA in?


i have some weird cables but no component to VGA or HDMI to VGA.


would HDMI to VGA work if i was able to figure that one out?


anyways, thank you so much for your help, i think i understand now. i just have an HDTV that is fine IF im running 1080, but its more of a monitor than HDTV so it tries to upscale digital signals to 1080?


if i had an xbox 360, since it has a great built in scaler, would it be fine on something like this 2333HD?


cheers, thanks man.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18708202


To eliminate the grainy problem you need to play games designed for 1080p or at a minimum send them to the monitor at 1080i over component or at 1080p over VGA.

Using HDMI or DVI will not improve the problem.

That makes no sense. VGA is worse then HDMI/DVI for an LCD and Component is double worse because its both analog and a completely different color space. Unless his cable is faulty, nothing good will happen from downgrading inputs.


Also scaling a 720p image to 1080p is nothing, I got 720p TV rips, upscaled to 1080p by the PS3 so that I can acitivate PC mode on my samsung which also downscales them to 768p and I don't get any extra graininess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711229


anyways, thank you so much for your help, i think i understand now. i just have an HDTV that is fine IF im running 1080, but its more of a monitor than HDTV so it tries to upscale digital signals to 1080?

No, an LCD will scale all signals to it's native resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711229


if i had an xbox 360, since it has a great built in scaler, would it be fine on something like this 2333HD?

Only if the 360s scaler is better then the scaler in your TV.


Basically the 360s scaler is irrelevant unless you are trying to force PC mode in your Samsung. If the game isn't 1080p then either the console or the tv will have to scale it to the native resolution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"No, an LCD will scale all signals to it's native resolution."


the 2333hd is an actual (supposed) TV. so when i auto-check the PS3 video output res via HDMI it does select, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.


but yes it is an LCD.


so are you saying, no matter what res i have the PS3 set to, which is always 720p because most PS3 games are designed to be a native 720p and the few that are a native 1080p i dont own, the minitor will be in 1080p??


because when im running 720p, it says "HDMI1, 'game' 1280x720".


i have tried renaming the input to PC, i see MANY people doing this on their 2333hds but the only thing it does for me is lower the color quality, and subtract normal settings i have in my samsung menu which is stuff like "just scan, HDMI black level, color tone etc..."


when naming HDMI1 PC, all i can do is switch between 16:9 and 4:3, and alter contrast and brightness.


anyways, like i said, ive been familiar with PC gaming, GFX settings etc for a long time, im more familiar with it. and what im finding with hi def TV's and console gaming is a big bowl of annoying crap. its way too complicated. and i dont mean, "i dont understand", i mean it takes too much recourse wise to get a TV the works with most consoles???


a PC works on every monitor, no prob. but with PS3's and their odd HDMI issues that cropped up in 2006 (as seen through many complaints if u search that topic on google), many people had all kinds of problems.


i dont know. i experimented a little more tonight and in my PS3 this is how my settings are-


enable RGB color(HDMI)- ON, enable super-white(HDMI)- on, with certain videos settings like- upscale- normal, RGB/y, p/b, c/r (sp?) set to auto, and 24hz set to off.


so far this has been the best picture and i turned off 1080p/i. i only enabled 720p.


but it doesnt look like im playing on a decent hi def TV... i'll just have to deal with it.
 

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Think of a LCD fixed pixel display as being just like an electric freeway sign with 1080 rows of lights with each row having 1920 bulbs.

Your TVs Info button displays what resolution the TV is receiving.

Lungbrace is correct that DVI or HDMI will produce better Picture Quality but it will reduce the grainy problem caused by upscaling 720p to 1080p.

Most likely your PS3 will do a better job of upscaling so you need to output 1080p or 1080i from it to your TV. Since 1080i/60 is 30 frames a second sending 1080p/60 is preferred for games.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18711631


Think of a LCD fixed pixel display as being just like an electric freeway sign with 1080 rows of lights with each row having 1920 bulbs.

Your TVs Info button displays what resolution the TV is receiving.

Lungbrace is correct that DVI or HDMI will produce better Picture Quality but it will reduce the grainy problem caused by upscaling 720p to 1080p.

Most likely your PS3 will do a better job of upscaling so you need to output 1080p or 1080i from it to your TV. Since 1080i/60 is 30 frames a second sending 1080p/60 is preferred for games.

thanks again man. i actually have a better grip on whats going on in the magic kingdom of console & hi def TVs...

so, what i think i gather from what your saying is, playing a 720p on this TV wont always look great, but 1080p usually will and to take the good with the bad.


if im not getting too deep here, what does a standard HiDef TV do that is different than this LCD monitor? what makes their pictures crisp at all resolutions, where as an LCD monitor will only look good at its native?


is that why a hidef TV is more expensive compared to an HDCP compatible monitor? i always wondered why everyone wouldnt just buy a 250$ 24" monitor as opposed to a 400$ 20" HDTV. is it that HDTVs have the capabilities to run in 3 native resolutions (i.e. 480/720/1080) and therefore the higher price?


cheers.
 

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Fixed pixel HDTVs such as LCD,Plasma, and DLP only actually "run" in their native resolutions. That fact that you can feed other resolutions to them which they will always have to scale to their native resolution since just like the freeway sign they cannot change the number of rows and number of bulps(pixels) in each row,

I don't know what you mean by a "standard HiDef TV" unless you are referring to the no longer avaialbe Hi Scan CRT HDTVs that could scan at multiple resoluions.

The LCD PC monitors also work the same way as the LCD TVs but often they will not scale their incoming content so if send 720p content to 1080p PC monitor it is very likely that you will just end up with a picture that fills up only about 1/2 of the screen
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711335


when naming HDMI1 PC, all i can do is switch between 16:9 and 4:3, and alter contrast and brightness.

Exactly, it locks in my settings so you don't have to deal with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711335


but with PS3's and their odd HDMI issues that cropped up in 2006 (as seen through many complaints if u search that topic on google), many people had all kinds of problems.

With all due respect, you have NO idea what you are talking about. The problem some people had was they were early 1080i CRT adopters, some of which don't accept 720p. So because the PS3 outputs games in it's native resolution they had to downgrade to 480p instead of upscaling to 1080i.


The other issue is a lot of us want to force PC mode in which case we need the PS3, not the TV, to upscale the image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711335


i dont know. i experimented a little more tonight and in my PS3 this is how my settings are-


enable RGB color(HDMI)- ON, enable super-white(HDMI)- on, with certain videos settings like- upscale- normal, RGB/y, p/b, c/r (sp?) set to auto, and 24hz set to off.

Those settings are really irrelevant for your problem becauuse they won't add graininess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18713052


what i think i gather from what your saying is, playing a 720p on this TV wont always look great, but 1080p usually will and to take the good with the bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbrace /forum/post/18711335


i mean it takes too much recourse wise to get a TV the works with most consoles???

You have to determine what is wrong with your setup, Console, Display or Cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
well, i usually wouldn't argue about the fact that i have no idea what im talking about, but all i have been doing for the last two weeks is researching PS3's and their settings. and as well as 2006 and even most recently on the PS3 forums i am seeing LOTS of people who are having problems with their HDMI on the tech support forums forums.


i had NO issues with my Wii or 360 (when i had them). i have had many issues with my PS3. it just does not look as good as the other two consoles when using them on a range of different monitors/TVs...


so, in that respect, i do know what im talking about with pure facts.


people are struggling with their PS3s and so am i.


and as for me explaining the PS3 settings i found to be more flattering for my display last night, theyre not irrelevant because as well as aliasing issues, i am also having color and lighting issues as well.


a characters face completely blacked out in red dead, the shadows in a building are "sticking" to the screen even when moving the camera...


its just a lot of BS, and seeing as ive been on 3 different TVs and 4 different monitors in the span of the last 2 months of trying **** out, i think i might have to chalk it up to a poor PS3.
 
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