[BlazeMaster]

My SVS PCi20-39 took delivery today. Just wanted to share it with you all since my girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all. I guess I was expecting it to shake the walls as I've heard people describing on the net, but haven't had that kinda experience yet. I'm not sure if I'm doing anything wrong as far as setup goes, will experiment a little more tomorrow on my day off. Don't get me wrong, I still feel this is one capable sub for the $600 that I spent on it, I just felt like there's something wrong in the setup or the placement that's holding it back.

 

[DMF]

Move it around. Find the right place for it.


And think of it this way. Properly set up, it's not like you are adding a new speaker that you'd be able to hear right off. It's more like you are extending the bass capabilities of your existing speakers. When those capabilites are needed, you'll know that they're there!

 

[BlazeMaster]

actually, I think I can take that back. I just watched LOTR, Return of the King and all my doubts about this sub went out of the window. Towards the end of the movie where Frodo was standing before the fire and about to drop the ring. The ring started tempting Frodo, the bass was just getting louder and louder and the last couple of thumps was shaking all the windows in the house including the ones upstairs. Wow!

I'm sure with proper setups, calibration and placement it can only get better and better. After all, this IS my first day with it.

 

[mercury]

posted by Edward J M over at HTF...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf...threadid=212767


There are common set-up errors that could be causing some problems. Double check all of these things before you try to recalibrate:


In the AVR:


1) All speakers set to small.

2) Crossover set to 80 Hz.

3) Sub set to on/yes.

4) Subwoofer Remix or LFE + Mains set to off/no.

5) Dolby Dynamic Range Compression Circuit set to off/no.

6) LFE (0.1) channel level set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value (if the AVR has the capability).

7) THX (or any other) bass limiter circuits set to off/no.

8) Subwoofer channel level to -5.


In the DVD player:


1) Output set to bitstream (digital output via the digital coax).

2) Dolby Dynamic Range Compression Circuit set to off/no.


On the subwoofer:


1) PB2 to all ports open (we can try 20 Hz tune later).

2) Tune switch to 25 Hz.

3) Crossover switch to off.

4) Set the phase to 0 degrees initially unless you have the capability to evaluate the FR of the system.


Avia is true Dolby Digital and uses the speaker channels for sub calibration and therefore allows the speaker channel in question to contribute bass to the subwoofer tone.


I have found that the amount of bass each speaker contributes to the sub tone is highly dependent on its room location, its inherent bass capabilities, its proximity to the subwoofer, and the xo you have selected.


For example, the left main channel in my system is several dB higher than any other channel on the subwoofer tone. If I selected the left main channel for sub calibration, it would result in undercalibration of the sub.


The best way is to run the Avia sub test tone for each speaker channel and note the results. Pick the one that seems most representative of the average and go with it for final sub calibration.


Also, a good way to evalaute the effect of the phase control when using Avia is to run the sub calibration tone for the speaker closest to the subwoofer and try the phase at 0 and then at 180. Observes what happens on the SPL meter. Usually one setting will be considerably higher than the other, indicating the subwoofer and the nearest speaker are the most "in phase" at that phase setting. This may not be completely desireable from a smooth FR standpoint, but it can help you understand the effect of the phase control, since Avia does rely on redirected bass.


Keep your sub level in the pre/pro around -5 to minimize pre-out distortion levels, and adjust the sub volume at the PB2.


While bass tastes will vary, most prefer the sub 2-3 dB hot for HT, and flat for music. Because it is C-weighted, the RS sound meter reads about 2 dB LOW on the typical subwoofer rumble tone.


So an average reading of 85-86 dB on the meter is about 87-88 dB in reality - or 2-3 dB "hot". This would be a good starting point for HT. If it's not "hot enough", crank it up another 2-3 dB; the PB2 can take it.


An average reading of 83-84 dB on the meter is about 85-86 dB in reality - or about "flat". This would be a good starting point for music.


The above assumes you are using 85 dB with Avia to calibrate to Reference Level. You can use a lower level of course (like 80 dB as you stated above). I just find using 85 dB and Master Volume to 0.0 easiest.


If you retune the PB2 to 20 Hz, bump the sub level in the pre/pro 2-3 dB (over the 25 Hz tune) to compensate for the loss in sensitivity.


Regards,


Ed

 

[Ron Stimpson]

BlazeMaster,


Getting your SPL meter and test DVD out is key now that you did the quick run up by ear (receiver test tones are OK but I'm never personally "done" till I've run Avia through any setup I'm doing).


Be sure to run through the entire manual and Ed Mullen's list too. There are about 99 ways to set up a subwoofer with today's complex receivers (don't forget your DVD player has its own setup menu) ... and often difficult rooms.


One of them, maybe two of those 99 options are usually right ;^)


Of course drop us a line if you have an issue that isn't clear.


Ron

 

[CUclimber]

Quote:

Just wanted to share it with you all since my girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all.

LOL. I had this same issue a year ago when I stated putting together my first decent setup.


"But look, they're Paradigms! Don't they sound awsome?!"

"That's nice honey. Glad you like your new toys."


The same thing happened when I built my sub (Adire Shiva in a sealed enclosure). The thing was shaking the walls even with her Sarah McLachlan cds and all she could do was ask me to turn it down.


Bah!

 

[sethwas]

Just wait for the


"there is no way that thing is going over there"


Seth

 

[mhawker]

HA! Your comments sound like my thoughts when I first opened my 20-39PC+. I pulled it out of the box, with it still in the middle of the room, and plugged it into the receiver. I was totally UNDERwhelmed. Then I asked here and other places and found out that I should put it in the corner and calibrate it. Ahhhhhh.


I now smile every time my vertical blinds shake..... in the kitchen.

 

[Nesto]

heh, I also just got my SVS 20-39PCi yesterday, woot !!


but I was also not as "blown away" to be quite honest. Then again I am also into car audio and told myself not to expect as much of an impact. Compared to how much I spent on a box/sub/amp for my car, which is a balanced system, I'm not a bass head, the SV Sub is a complete bargain and loooks soOoOooo much nicer and menacing. (and I did a pretty good job hunting down deals online, i never pay retail). It was a lot bigger than I thought it would be ! =) I have tweaked it (setting speakers to small made a HUGE difference) and it sounds much nicer. I have a Pioneer with MCACC and it sets the sub level too low for my tests. I also got a Rat Shack meter today and along with Avia I'm getting somewhat frustrated, I don't think I have the patience for all this lol and Avia is killing my eyes. Also, setting the phase is pretty difficult, any tips ? and with the sound level meter what db am I going for ? I hear so many conflicting numbers and I'm a HT newb.


Still, its interesting tweaking it and I am satisfied, I think I just hyped myself too much beforehand and incorrectly thinking I would get mind blowing bass ALL THE TIME in movies. When in truth, LFE is a very small percentage of a movie's soundtrack but does make it a different and more complete experience. It goes deep, its fast, tight and shakes the whole house, I love it. unfortunately, now I gotta go buy more DVDs. Seems my collection lacks the explosion filled / special effects laden films with bad storylines/plot/dialogue. Spent far too much money lately on my first HT and its weird how I started this to watch movies I love but I have to get movies I've stayed away from to show off my system =(

 

[Ron Stimpson]

Nesto,


Just skip to the level calibration and don't sweat phase much. With all speakers set to small, and only one sub in the mix, phase is unlikely to have a huge effect on your sound.


Getting your level settings in the correct ballpark ASAP is always the key to success with subs (don't forget you want each channel to be at 85dB with Avia, and maybe a couple dB hotter for the sub. Given you are going to press things pretty hard it seems, you might NOT want to run the sub hot however).


And as you noted, HT is different. If you are set up properly, you really should NOT be going "wow, there goes the sub" often... if at all. You want to be drawn into the action on the screen, and have all audio seemless in its surround sound field.


Your attention should not be drawn to the subwoofer (even if it seems sometimes that folks fixate on a specific speaker like a sub, ultimately it's all about making the speakers disappear. I know I have a great setup when I'm totally immersed in a movie and don't think about the subwoofer once!).


Experimentation is key. Both with level, placement in the room and even little obscure things like making sure your DVD player is set to "Bitstream" in the digital audio output. Little things make big changes (as that long list from Mr. Ed Mullen above attests to).


And ultimately it's all about making the sound right for you. The calibration part with the SPL meter and Avia are really only departure points so you know what's "spec" according to Dolby Labs.


Ron

 

[drdoan]

Ron is correct, I have a 16-46Pci with the Behringer EQ and after careful adjusting, my sound is so seamless that I can't remember to listen for the sub as I get involved in the movie. But, when the Bal Roc or other beast stomps the floor, I have no doubts that the sub is working! It is amazing how much difference I have noticed from when I first got the sub (about a year ago) and now. Before calibrating, it would shake the room, but, was always a distraction from the movie. Now it sounds like the sub is an integral part of the sound. I LOVE the deep bass that I can feel more than hear. Keep at it, that is the fun of the hobby. Dennis

 

[drdoan]

here is the response curve. The black is the before and the pink is after. Dennis

 

[DMF]

And you did that with a BFD only? Damned impressive!

 

[drdoan]

Yes, that BFD is an amazing piece of equipment. And for around $100! Dennis

 

[MRL]

Having a good set up for bass in your car is completely different that your HT. Its because your in such a tight area in a car where home obviously is very open and spread out. The only way to get close is with a PB4 or do I dare say a couple of them. I have a PB2+ and can get it to move hairs on my head at low LFE's from 15 ft. but I have a very large family room which does double duty for the HT.

 

[Kipp Jones]

Quote:

Originally posted by BlazeMaster actually, I think I can take that back. I just watched LOTR, Return of the King and all my doubts about this sub went out of the window. Towards the end of the movie where Frodo was standing before the fire and about to drop the ring. The ring started tempting Frodo, the bass was just getting louder and louder and the last couple of thumps was shaking all the windows in the house including the ones upstairs. Wow! I'm sure with proper setups, calibration and placement it can only get better and better. After all, this IS my first day with it.

Thanks for the spoiler, I have not watched the last hour of the movie yet.

 

[BlazeMaster]

Ron, since you actually replied to this post, I'll ask u this directly. I sent a email to yours sales department and my email address is [email protected] you can email me there if your reply has any kinda conflict of interest with AVS. I do like my PCi 20-39, but as I said in my email that the sub is probably the only speaker that I'll not upgrade once every year or so, so I want to make sure I get a good one. What's the difference between the "+" and the "i" version, sonically? What's the dB gain would I get if I go from the "i" to the "+", with both sub properly and equally setup and placed? I know alot of it has to do with the room it's in, but what's the conservative gain usually? I really like clean and tight bass, the "i" is good enough for right now, but knowing me, I'd have the itch to upgrade later, I'll loose more money by selling it 2nd hand and buy a new one. I think I should just take advantage of the 45 day return period and exchange for either the "+" or the Ultra version. My room is about 11.5x30x8. I normally listen to it at moderate levels, but once in a while I do like to turn it up really loud. Please read my email that I sent to your sales email address. Thanks alot Ron.


Kipp....Return of the King been out for more than a while by now, WHY haven't you seen it yet? Do yourself the favor and pick up a copy. It's the best one out of the 3 episodes IMO.

 

[Malor]

The SVS subs are incredibly powerful. I have a PC Ultra, and as I have said numerous times, if I were in crowded, wood frame construction, it would be audible a block away. Crank that puppy up and the NEIGHBOR'S blinds would shake.


Fortunately, I live in a brick house in a widely-spaced subdivision, so I can get away with quite a lot.

 

[Kipp Jones]

Quote:

Originally posted by BlazeMaster Kipp....Return of the King been out for more than a while by now, WHY haven't you seen it yet? Do yourself the favor and pick up a copy. It's the best one out of the 3 episodes IMO.

I have it, I just have not had the time. Oh well.

 

[zacster]

As for WAF placement, I have been surprised that nobody ever notices my 20-39 in the corner of my room. But my front speakers ar 41" tall covered in gorgeous Australian Lacewood, and I have a tube system front and center, so maybe it draws the attention away from it. Everybody asks about the tubes.