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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently ordered a PN50C7000, and of course I'm now second guessing (and this was only supposed to be a $500 purchase......
). My original intent was to convert the 7000 in to an 8000 through the service menu, but I'm not sure how well it will work due to other threads and I've read that the 8000 has other advantages as well (less IR, better AR fileter). Real 24p playback is important to me and is one of the reasons I decided to spend much more money than I originally wanted to. I seem to always notice jutter with fast motion (whenever fast motion starts, it seems like the first frame freezes for a moment) and it always snaps me back to reality when I'm watching a movie.


The PN50C8000 is not too much more than the PN50C7000. Should I just return the 7000 and pick up the 8000 instead? Again, proper 24p is critical.
 

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Maybe this customer review will make you sleep better



If you primarily watch BluRay then there is a Motion Compensation setting you would want to turn off. I have heard that the 7000 does not have the option but can be hacked to 8000 firmware or something like that to provide an option to turn it off. Other then that, I do not believe there is much noticeable difference in PQ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks. The PNxxC7000 has a better black level than the PNxxC8000?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcandiloro /forum/post/19558917


It has excellent blacks, but not better than an 8000. Same innards and the 8000 has a "real black" filter.

Thanks. Now to decide if that real black filter is worth $150 in a room with fairly good light control. I don't always want to watch TV in the dark either.
 

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According to the experts, all of the '10 Samsung 1080p 50" plasmas have the same black levels; their 58" and 63" plasmas are somewhat better. The reason one might read of quite a few variances in reviews, over the model year, is that there was a firmware update, a while ago, that improved the black levels; also, some of the Samsungs have an optional Cinema Smooth setting, which raises (worsens) the black levels, if used in that mode. Recent tests show fairly consistent readings with CS off and with the newer firmware (typically now shipped that way; if not, then updated). There will often be slight variances when comparing samples, but, typically, it is only a slight difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks.


How important is that real black filter in a room with low to moderate lighting? I have a lamp at "9 oclock" (to the left at a 45 degree angle), and sometimes flourescent ceiling lighting behind the seating area from the kitchen. I also have one window with standard blinds, but extremely bright sunlight rarely comes through it. The entire room is white (and it's small).
 

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There is a lot of misinformation in here.


The 7000 is the exact same as the 8000. The only thing that seperates it is that the 8000 has a "real black Ar filter". This only helps to keep blacks darker in daylight. In a dark room, it will make no difference.



Also, all Samsung plasmas do not have the same blacks. Larger sized panels register better blacks than the smaller ones. EX. The 63" and 58" have better blacks than the 50".


Hope this helps you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy /forum/post/0


There is a lot of misinformation in here.


The 7000 is the exact same as the 8000. The only thing that seperates it is that the 8000 has a "real black Ar filter". This only helps to keep blacks darker in daylight. In a dark room, it will make no difference.


Also, all Samsung plasmas do not have the same blacks. Larger sized panels register better blacks than the smaller ones. EX. The 63" and 58" have better blacks than the 50".


Hope this helps you.

Hmmmmm, where have you seen the 63" and 58" having better blacks than the 50"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy /forum/post/19559912


There is a lot of misinformation in here.


The 7000 is the exact same as the 8000. The only thing that seperates it is that the 8000 has a "real black Ar filter". This only helps to keep blacks darker in daylight. In a dark room, it will make no difference.



Also, all Samsung plasmas do not have the same blacks. Larger sized panels register better blacks than the smaller ones. EX. The 63" and 58" have better blacks than the 50".


Hope this helps you.


Can you define a dark room (i.e. night time with no lights on or day time with average blinds closed or night time with a lamp or two on)? For movies, I do like to watch with the lights off, but not for TV.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy /forum/post/19559912


Also, all Samsung plasmas do not have the same blacks. Larger sized panels register better blacks than the smaller ones. EX. The 63" and 58" have better blacks than the 50".

My mistake, I was very tired when I wrote that. The rest of the info. is correct, though. I was thinking of the various models of Samsung plasmas, and totally forgot about the differences in MLL depending on plasma size, of which, I am very well aware. Thanks for pointing it out, though.
I have edited my previous post to reflect this. D-Nice, the calibrator, says he consistently reads: 50" at .009-.010 fL, and 58" and 63" at .007-.008 fL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 /forum/post/19560640


My mistake, I was very tired when I wrote that. The rest of the info. is correct, though. I was thinking of the various models of Samsung plasmas, and totally forgot about the differences in MLL depending on plasma size, of which, I am very well aware. Thanks for pointing it out, though.
I have edited my previous post to reflect this. D-Nice, the calibrator, says he consistently reads: 50" at .009-.010 fL, and 58" and 63" at .007-.008 fL.

This is a post by Swoon that I'm copying and pasting here ( link to original post ):


My impression though is that VT reviews are measuring ~.004 ftL consistently whereas C8000 we have the following:


1. 58" HDGuru .009 ftL

2. 50" Cnet .019 ftL

3. 58" HDTV Shootout / D-nice .007 - .008 ftL

4. 58" PCMag .01 cd/m2 (somewhere between .0029 ftL and .0058 ftL)

5. 50" Plasma TV Buying Guide .0256 cd/m2 (.0075 ftL)

6. 58" My own measurement .008 ftL (60Hz) .011 ftL (24Hz 4:4)


You should also keep in mind that Samsung black levels fall during the first 1000 hours where Panasonic black levels rise. Samsung seems to be putting out some firmware updates that have been making their black levels fall as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew
This is a post by Swoon that I'm copying and pasting here ( link to original post ):


My impression though is that VT reviews are measuring ~.004 ftL consistently whereas C8000 we have the following:


1. 58" HDGuru .009 ftL

2. 50" Cnet .019 ftL

3. 58" HDTV Shootout / D-nice .007 - .008 ftL

4. 58" PCMag .01 cd/m2 (somewhere between .0029 ftL and .0058 ftL)

5. 50" Plasma TV Buying Guide .0256 cd/m2 (.0075 ftL)

6. 58" My own measurement .008 ftL (60Hz) .011 ftL (24Hz 4:4)


You should also keep in mind that Samsung black levels fall during the first 1000 hours where Panasonic black levels rise. Samsung seems to be putting out some firmware updates that have been making their black levels fall as well.
I remember that posting; following are my comments:

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CNet's 58" TV .009 fL is the highest reading from a 'reliable' source. Conversely, .0065 is the lowest 'reliable' reading, of which I read.

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CNet's 50" TV reading of .019 fL was from before the firmware (and, IIRC, with CS on), like I alluded to before, in this thread.

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D-Nice didn't measure the Samsung at the HDTV Shootout; Mr. Johnson did. D-Nice said that the reading was wrong, and he estimated .007 - .008. He, subsequently, said, he has been getting exactly those readings on customers' TVs.

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PC Mag's reading of .01 cd/m2 was from a meter that only read to two decimal places, and couldn't read lower than .01. So, any rounding could be only have been rounded down. The actual reading had to have been between .01 and .0149... cd/m2, which converts to .0029 - .0044 fL., as I mentioned in that thread, IIRC.


The person on AVS, apparently, thought the meter would truncate (round down) every reading, and, thus, converted .01 and .02 cd/m2 to fL; there was no basis for that inference, AFAIK.


The point is, even at .0044, if correct, is the lowest reading I have seen, but I don't find it reliable, since no others, including calibrators, have been close. Wasn't that a foreign version of the TV, anyway?

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IIRC, Samsungs, (like Pioneer, and maybe LG) MLL 'settles' by decreasing (improving) just a little bit, no more than .001 fL, IIRC.

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VT25 has been quite consistent, to start. D-Nice says he gets .0038 - .0042 fL; so, yes, .004 fL is the correct avg.


Panasonic says the VT25 will end at .0010 - .0011 fL; D-Nice says tripling, which would be .012 fL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 /forum/post/19565112


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D-Nice didn't measure the Samsung at the HDTV Shootout; Mr. Johnson did. D-Nice said that the reading was wrong, and he estimated .007 - .008. He, subsequently, said, he has been getting exactly those readings on customers' TVs.

---------------


VT25 has been quite consistent, to start. D-Nice says he gets .0038 - .0042 fL; so, yes, .004 fL is the correct avg.


Panasonic says the VT25 will end at .0010 - .0011 fL; D-Nice says tripling, which would be .012 fL.

The post listed Dnice's estimate of .007-.008 for the HDTV Shootout.


What I want to know is if those VT25 readings were made while the blacks were floated up or while the blacks were floated down. I guess it doesn't really matter though because in either case, all the C7000s and C8000s will eventually have better black levels than the VT25.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 /forum/post/19565112


I remember that posting; following are my comments:

---------------


CNet's 58" TV .009 fL is the highest reading from a 'reliable' source. Conversely, .0065 is the lowest 'reliable' reading, of which I read.

---------------


CNet's 50" TV reading of .019 fL was from before the firmware (and, IIRC, with CS on), like I alluded to before, in this thread.

---------------


D-Nice didn't measure the Samsung at the HDTV Shootout; Mr. Johnson did. D-Nice said that the reading was wrong, and he estimated .007 - .008. He, subsequently, said, he has been getting exactly those readings on customers' TVs.

---------------


PC Mag's reading of .01 cd/m2 was from a meter that only read to two decimal places, and couldn't read lower than .01. So, any rounding could be only have been rounded down. The actual reading had to have been between .01 and .0149... cd/m2, which converts to .0029 - .0044 fL., as I mentioned in that thread, IIRC.


The person on AVS, apparently, thought the meter would truncate (round down) every reading, and, thus, converted .01 and .02 cd/m2 to fL; there was no basis for that inference, AFAIK.


The point is, even at .0044, if correct, is the lowest reading I have seen, but I don't find it reliable, since no others, including calibrators, have been close. Wasn't that a foreign version of the TV, anyway?

--------------


IIRC, Samsungs, (like Pioneer, and maybe LG) MLL 'settles' by decreasing (improving) just a little bit, no more than .001 fL, IIRC.

--------------


VT25 has been quite consistent, to start. D-Nice says he gets .0038 - .0042 fL; so, yes, .004 fL is the correct avg.


Panasonic says the VT25 will end at .0010 - .0011 fL; D-Nice says tripling, which would be .012 fL.

The higher numbers indicate Cinema Smooth on.

Also I believe it was mentioned in these forums that a firmware updated improved it to .012 which will just about be equal to a VT25 estimated final black level after all rising.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew /forum/post/19565901


What I want to know is if those VT25 readings were made while the blacks were floated up or while the blacks were floated down.

AFAIK, readings are taken with a black screen. AFAIK, black levels are 'floating up' (worsening), the brighter the content on screen.
 
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