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My point being: don´t use random PA-amps for this sensitive speaker at domestic sized -premises if you care below "on the ocean shore" -level noise floor. This animal do not need more than 50 W of unclipped power for even the deafest of home users. What it does need from amp, is as good as possible noise floor. Three digit noise floor reading (+100 dB) would be nice starting point.
 

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Why the hell you put kW-class PA-amps for driving 104dB @ 2.83V -sensitive speaker AT HOME ENVIRONMENT? You all are writing about it with those Crown PA-amps as some kind of sensible default configuration. Which it definitely is not. By doing so, you are practically begging noise problems. "But going full-active bi-amp configuration and all...".. Not worth it. The sound doesnt improve so much by active drive.

P.S. 4722N can be driven to skull crushing SPLs with most basicest basic-AVR. Put 50 W to its ass and next hifi-upgrade is your hearing aid...
My point being: don´t use random PA-amps for this sensitive speaker at domestic sized -premises if you care below "on the ocean shore" -level noise floor. This animal do not need more than 50 W of unclipped power for even the deafest of home users. What it does need from amp, is as good as possible noise floor. Three digit noise floor reading (+100 dB) would be nice starting point.
Thanks for the "feedback?" :roll eyes:

I decided to go with the Crown DSi amps because I wanted to run active with the JBL 4722 preset developed at Harmon. Also the flexibility of the Audio architect program and DSP capability. The DSi amps are awesome and way beyond a XLS series. Not that is matters if you don't want active or care about the DSP. Like @Molon_Labe who went with Dirac for his EQ.

I simply came on and "reported" that the noise from unblanced to balanced was not quite as drastic as I expected. We were all discussing it weeks back so thats the premise of my comments a few days ago. I can only hear very faintly at 4.5 ft. I expect once I get them behind screen in fully treated room sitting 12-13ft back it will not be an issue. ;)
 

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I am running Dirac Live which requires external amplifiers. Crown amps, especially the gen 1 XLS series, are at bargain prices right now. I just bought and XLS 1500 new for $199 shipped. The higher noise floor doesn't bother me and I am not tripping breakers or heating up my room with Class A/B amps. Just because you have the power doesnt mean you have to set the gain to max or turn the dial all the way to the right.
Yea, I know! I am very tempted to snag a couple of the 1500's and just wait on Concentric 8 surround kits...It has been fun lately spending money :D

BTW congrats on your progress, I'm enjoying the pics and reports :)
 

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Guy's JBL seems to be retiring the 3252N from their Cinema 3000 series lineup, it is no longer in their website. I am wondering why did they do that and what might they be replacing it with!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #2,429
I wish we could hear some pro Cinema lines at Cedia instead of the typical stuff.
 

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The XLS 1500 and up per Crown - SNR >103 dB (rated as dBr to full rated 8 ohm power output)
Yes, full output. Which is how many kilowats? If measured by 1 - 10 W typical domestic usage power output, SNR figure drops like cows tail... may be more like 70 - 80 dB. Here we are "on the ocean shore" with 104 dB sensitive loudspeaker again... Of course effect attenuates by half mile long listening distances etc SNR-handicapping.
 

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I wish we could hear some pro Cinema lines at Cedia instead of the typical stuff.
JBL PRO usually has some stuff set up. Harman buys like 1/4 of the building... They have cars, demos, pro, home, all sorts of stuff. Last year they had a Ferrari, A full ATMOS commercial demo from JBL Pro, the entire lines of AVR and speakers... etc...

Those guys will talk shop all day on the show floor too. I guess it depends on what you mean, if you expect a 90 foot line array then yeah... that's missing. lol.
 

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Thanks for the "feedback?" :roll eyes:

I decided to go with the Crown DSi amps because I wanted to run active with the JBL 4722 preset developed at Harmon. Also the flexibility of the Audio architect program and DSP capability. The DSi amps are awesome and way beyond a XLS series. Not that is matters if you don't want active or care about the DSP. Like @Molon_Labe who went with Dirac for his EQ.

I simply came on and "reported" that the noise from unblanced to balanced was not quite as drastic as I expected. We were all discussing it weeks back so thats the premise of my comments a few days ago. I can only hear very faintly at 4.5 ft. I expect once I get them behind screen in fully treated room sitting 12-13ft back it will not be an issue. ;)
Active driving complicates whole system significantly. Benefit is small. I would drive´em in basic passive configuration.
Instead of PA-amps DSP, you could have used more appropriate devices. Like MiniDSP NanoAVR as outboard EQ and normal AVR as amp.

Yes, one of the most advanced techniques to avoid peace of **** amps noise is running half mile distance to listening them... :D
 

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Active driving complicates whole system significantly. Benefit is small. I would drive´em in basic passive configuration.
Instead of PA-amps DSP, you could have used more appropriate devices. Like MiniDSP NanoAVR as outboard EQ and normal AVR as amp.

Yes, one of the most advanced techniques to avoid peace of **** amps noise is running half mile distance to listening them... :D
Sladi, this thread is more better with you around :D You speak truth! No one wants to be on the ocean shore. 120dB noise floor amps for the win.
Did you not read my words? I can barely hear anything at 4.5ft. 6ft back and I can hear nothing. And on top of all of that its not an annoying buzz or humm. It's very calm noise and AGAIN ONLY HEARD 4.5FT AND IN!!! Ending up sitting around 12ft to 13ft it will not be an issue. Obviously you know more than I do and I respect that and I know English is not your first language but...

I got the "n" model to have the passive option. NanoAVR? Now we have arguments about proper place in the signal chain. :roll eyes: It never ends. Many people around here use pro amps for mains and have great success. If I felt noise was an issue at MLP I would do something different. Again it was a "report back" about a discussion we were having a coupe of weeks ago...
 

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My crown xls 1500 amps have a quieter noise floor than my first gen emotiva xpa 3. How dare it! :cool:

My QSC dca amp is even quieter... Silent from 3 feet away on 101db Qsc 2150s.... Say it ain't so!
 

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Did you not read my words? I can barely hear anything at 4.5ft. 6ft back and I can hear nothing. And on top of all of that its not an annoying buzz or humm. It's very calm noise and AGAIN ONLY HEARD 4.5FT AND IN!!! Ending up sitting around 12ft to 13ft it will not be an issue.
Ok, whatever. Maybe those Crown amps then do have good enough SNR. Have to ask though: you didn´t accidentially forget earmuffs on, amps were actually on, gains were on actually usable real world settings, at least 4722´s horn modules were connected to amps... ?? I could hear noise from 104 dB sensitive speaker connected to random kW-class PA-amps maybe even over internet... :)

Many people around here use pro amps for mains and have great success.
Many people around here think Europe is shopping mall in Oregon and Japan is Dolly Parton´s fourth husband, too... :D
Seriously writing, those people propably do not use those amps with 104 dB sensitive electroacoustic noise detectors.


My crown xls 1500 amps have a quieter noise floor than my first gen emotiva xpa 3. How dare it! :cool:
Emotiva XPA 3 is not very good reference amp, because it´s one peace of crap itself.
 

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Ok, whatever. Maybe those Crown amps then do have good enough SNR. Have to ask though: you didn´t accidentially forget earmuffs on, amps were actually on, gains were on actually usable real world settings, at least 4722´s horn modules were connected to amps... ?? I could hear noise from 104 dB sensitive speaker connected to random kW-class PA-amps maybe even over internet... :)



Many people around here think Europe is shopping mall in Oregon and Japan is Dolly Parton´s fourth husband, too... :D
Seriously writing, those people propably do not use those amps with 104 dB sensitive electroacoustic noise detectors.




Emotiva XPA 3 is not very good reference amp, because it´s one peace of crap itself.

LOL... man you know how to stir the pot:D. Hey if you have absolutely 0 (ZERO) noise in a treated room from 4 feet... I'd say you're good to go. ;) You have to properly set up the gain.. and no the gain does not limit power.

My 3 love their QSC DCA...Old pic of the trio
 

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Ok, whatever. Maybe those Crown amps then do have good enough SNR. Have to ask though: you didn´t accidentially forget earmuffs on, amps were actually on, gains were on actually usable real world settings, at least 4722´s horn modules were connected to amps... ?? I could hear noise from 104 dB sensitive speaker connected to random kW-class PA-amps maybe even over internet... :)

Many people around here think Europe is shopping mall in Oregon and Japan is Dolly Parton´s fourth husband, too... :D
Seriously writing, those people propably do not use those amps with 104 dB sensitive electroacoustic noise detectors.

Emotiva XPA 3 is not very good reference amp, because it´s one peace of crap itself.
Wow, you sure know how to "discuss" on internet forums :kiss:

If you actually kept up on the reports I made after a few of us discussed this weeks ago you would see I made the report after I first had DSi amps connected unbalanced via RCA to Oppo player. Then the used Onkyo 5508 I bought came in and I made some XLR to Phoenix with Belden Brilliance 20AWG mic cable. The noise decreased but only slightly to the RCA. I expected more...No matter where I turn the gain knob the noise remains the exact same. If it was terrible I would no way live this way...

IT IS ONLY AUDIBLE FROM 5FT AND SITTING BACK 12FT I DONT think its a worry
 
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