AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just saw a Seleco HT200 and I was not very impressed.


My first impression was that it didn't look as good as the Runco VX1C. It was rather washed out and I was aware of crawlies. I played my Dark City DVD on it and the lack of decent black level and picture artifacts were distracting. I next went in to see a Runco 8" CRT and was much happier with the picture. It was smooth and detailed and the black levels were fantastic. The picture was a bit dark but it was also a perf screen.


To be fair to Seleco the set up was less than ideal. The source was a Denon interlaced DVD directly into the projector. The throw distance didn't appear to be set up properly either. I intend to go back and see it properly set up with a good progressive scan source or scaler. I would really like to see one with a Grayhawk screen.


I am a little depressed because my room is perfect for the Seleco with a place to mount it behind the wall and project a large picture almost 25 feet away. Unfortunately Black Level and a film like appearance is very important to me. My viewing will be about 99% DVD. I hope that I will see something I am happy with in the next month or two.


Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
Phil-


Your experience with the HT200 puzzles me. I have auditioned this projector and essentially have the exact opposite impression of it. I too place emphasis on good black level and artifact free images. I thought the Seleco was superb in both areas (as have others). This leads me to believe that your suspicions are correct-that you were seeing a less-than-ideal setup. I would therefore encourage you to take another look before writing off this projector. No digital technology will be comparable to CRT with black level, but the Seleco is the best I've seen yet. I also failed to observe the dreaded crawlies you mention on the unit I demoed. FYI, the unit I viewed was fed an interlaced signal via component.


Kirk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
I can guaranty you the ht200 was not set up properly due to lack of knowledge on the dealers part or on purpose by the dealer to make the other projector look better.

When settup properly the seleco is outstanding and blows away the runco which is a Davis.

I have had both units.

CRT on the other hand is still superior if projected on a small screen but the new HT dlp projectors ( Dwin/Seleco ) are finally getting very close.




------------------

Thanks Very Much!


Alan Gouger

AV Science
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi guys,


The Seleco was set up in a room that I estimate to be no more than 20' long and the screen it was projecting on was a 110" diagonal. The salesman said that the throw distance was not right for the screen and proceeded to shrink the picture a bit on the screen. I really didn't see that much difference.


The Denon DVD was sending an interlaced signal via SVHS to the projector and I could definately see picture noise that was not present in the CRT room.


I am not sure what the DVD player was in the room with the Runco projector but the picture was on a 100" perf screen which was not ideal. The picture was dim but the colors were better and the blacks were much better. Overall the picture looked smoother as well.


The Dealer was not trying to sell the CRT over the Seleco and apologized for the set up. He was interested in trying to get a good scaler or better DVD player and I told him about the Greyhawk screen and he was quite interested.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
You just hit the nail on the head why the picture on the seleco waqs not up to par.

All digital projectors benifit from an outboard scaler or HTPC including the seleco.

The Runco dlp comes with an outboard scaler and crt projectors require them as well.

By running directly into the seleco via s cable from the dvd player they were using the internal scaler and decoder on the seleco which is not up to par.

Had they added a dvdo or scaler to the seleco you would have been very impressed. It is the only 1 chip dlp with true reds not orange red as on the Runco.


------------------

Thanks Very Much!


Alan Gouger

AV Science
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So Alan, would a scaler,even as simple as a DVDO, improve the black level on the Seleco as well as the color? I know it would improve the picture noise. How would a progressive scan signal going directly to the Seleco via component change the picture?

Thanks

Phil
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
A seperate scaler would do nothing to improve black level or color but it would clean up the other issues you mentioned.

The seleco has near blacks, almost as good as a crt. So does the Dwin. Many people hve also posted this. The colors are more accurate than a crt. I am sending in the HT250 when it comes in to have the gamma curve mapped and put into the AV-1 color analyzer. When I get the results I will post them.


Because black level is user adjustable it sounds like the dealer did not have it set up right. I dont mean to keep praising the seleco but I will tell you the blacks are black and they are the first 1 chip dlp company to use the proper color filters on the wheel unlike Davis which is a presentation projector. Runco uses the same stock Davis color wheel and does not modify it in any way! Dont get me wrong, I also have a davis and it is a fine projector. Especialy for the price.

I have not seen the Dwin myself has of yet but they also designed their own filters that are accurate for HT use.

I cant wait to see this projector as well.


------------------

Thanks Very Much!


Alan Gouger

AV Science
www.avscience.com


[This message has been edited by Alan Gouger (edited 01-20-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
683 Posts
I agree with Alan that the black levels on the Seleco HT200 are excellent for a digital projector. In the demo I saw the blacks were very close to CRT blacks. It was definatly the best black level I have seen on a digital projector.


This points out once again how important it is to view a projector that has been properly set-up. It is disapointing that so many "professional" dealers do not take the time to properly set-up and calibrate their demo products. This must drive the manufacturers crazy. Then again, most of the general buying public don't know what they are missing. Many of the members of this forum are more informed than many dealers.


Again, for what it is, a 800 x 600 single chip DLP, I think the Seleco is very impressive. Reed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
I'm certainly not a dealer and agree that most probably are fairly clueless. However, the judgements here may be a little harsh. You don't have to blow the setup by much to really reduce the contrast ratio. Plus, I'll bet most people prefer higher brightness than you'd get by using VE or Avia (quite frankly, I'm willing to swap some brightness for worse black level, even though I "know" better). Most people watch TVs with color temperatures that almost certainly exceed 8500 deg with contrast, brightness and sharpness all turned up too high. When was the last time you think someone showed up at that dealer's to buy a TV and said the black levels weren't good enough?

Anyway, there is a point here. If you are auditioning a projector, take source material with you (like VE) and ask the dealer let you play with the controls. The place I go to get projectors has the InfoComm test/display materials (which I am familiar with) and lets me adjust the projectors. They are also willing to set up at least one other projector nearby, usually something I am familiar with. This won't fix bad scalers or DVD players that won't display blacker than black, but it certainly should help. It is REALLY HARD to judge a projector without a reference and without being able to play with the settings.



------------------

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Steve,I sure hope that the picture adjustments were way off on the Seleco I saw yesterday. Next time I definately will ask to adjust them myself.


I went home after seeing it and fired up my Pioneer Pro 710 and the colors, black level and over all picture quality absolutely smoked the Seleco. The picture on my pro 710 is better than the CRT front projectors I have seen also. I realize that the screen size is only 64" but I will take quality over quantity to a certain extent any day. I feel that I should see something that at least approaches the quality of my 710 before I switch. So far, I haven't seen anything that even comes close. I will keep looking, I know it is out there.


I haven't given up on Digital projectors either. The dealer I saw the Seleco at is planning on getting Dwin in as well and I will definately go back to see the Seleco again.


Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,014 Posts
There is a current thread on the CRT forum in which predictably the

initial poster is singing the praises of CRT in comparison to DILA, DLP etc. But he makes the concession that the HT200 is "simply the best digital projector I have seen to date".


Bob

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,969 Posts
Two things to consider when auditioning the HT200:

1. Start out by requesting that the projector be viewed in the "Factory

Default" setting. This will cancel out any contorted adjustments that

may have accumulated during previous auditions. From this default

setting you can "season" to your taste (i.e. more or less sharpness,

etc..

2. If at all possible, view the projector on a non-perfed screen. Otherwise

you may falsely attribute digital anomolies to the projector rather than

to the negative interaction of pixels with perfing. In general, it is

not a good idea to use perfed screens with digital imaging devices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Gouger:
blows away the runco which is a Davis.
I thought the Runco units were built on a Plus/NEC chassis not Davis?





------------------

lance
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
I am currently using the Camelot progressive dvd player which is dvdo driven and the picture thru the hT200 is stunning. I cannot say this will be the case with the HT250 as the internal scaler in the 250 will have to do more work do the higher rez 1024 chip.


------------------

Thanks Very Much!


Alan Gouger

AV Science
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Alan , slightly off topic, but what is the optimum level of scaling for the HT200 ?.Is it worth considering a scaler which could feed it 720P (or more?), or is this beyond its reach ?.I would be using it with the Panamorph.


thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I spoke with the dealer I saw the seleco at and told him about all of your comments and suggested that he calibrate the projector. He said he would have their ISF guy come and set it up properly. I will go back and look at it then and report back here http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Alan:


I am purchasing a HT250 and I thank you for your confirmation of my decision. I respect your unbiased opinions greatly. Do you think the HT250 would benefit from a Cygnus IMX930-VT lens? If I understand correctly, this will enhance brightness by ~30%+ and increase the HT250's contrast ratio (already impressive at >600:1) as well.


As for dvd input for this projector, would you favor a Toshiba SD9200 or standard dvd through a dvdo scaler? Lastly, is the HT250's reported 4000 hr lamp life for real or not? Thanks again for your help.


Dr D
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top