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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am on the verge of buying a KD34xbr2. I've just spent about an hour on the boards and have not found a definitive answer to my question: is it possible to record OTA HD broadcasts on the JVC 30k for timeshifting and then play them back on the XBR in HD?


Sorry if it's been addressed, but this stuff is making my head spin.
 

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The Sony will not output a firewire signal to the 30K. The Sony will accept a firewire signal from the 30K, such as a D-VHS Theater tape of which there are now three, but soon to be more if we can believe the movies studios.
 

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I have not been able to get any local OTA HD content to work with yet. I do have an antenna to mount on a 100ft tower I have, but I have not had time to do the install, due to a brisk work schedule. This should allow me to receive 2 HD OTA sources out of New Orleans (appx 75 miles). I have on one occasion recorded OTA HD content from a Houston station some 500 miles away. This occured during a band opening and I have not caught a repeat opportunity to further test this out. I wish I could tell you for sure, but I will only post factual repeatable results as being positive.


Regardless of what some believe to be fact, the Sony i-Link is indeed a two way digital serial interface. It is explained in detail in the operators addendum to the Service manual. I also spoke with an engineer with Sony named Pete, who also confirmed that it was indeed a two way FW port, and he said that it was designed to work with "future" DVHS, "present" Cable and "future" Satellite STB's etc. I can't confirm this as FACT, but as soon as I can test this setup again, I will post the results regardless of the outcome. Quite honestly, I have been told by some here that I can't watch D-Theater tapes via FW to the Sony from my JVC 30k. I do this every night, with a smile! :D YMMV.



I'll post a new message here on AVS as soon as I know one way or the other. Like you, I still am in the dark (particularly with these LOCAL broadcasters delaying their DTV roll out). :mad: I guess that is a completely different thread. ;)


Ray
 

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All links whether serial or ieee etc are two ways. Its the handshaking to allow communication which ways is the issue. I expect sony doesnt allow handshacking out?


Since sony says it doesnt do it, why are people saying it should?


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow! Thanks to all!


I'm in DC, which apparently has good OTA HD content on the air, so I ought to be OK on reception.


The guys at my store (Myer-Emco, good local chain) tell me that I cannot use the HD tuner on the XBR2 to record out to a D-VHS. However, my understanding is that the JVC 30K has its own HD tuner/processor, so that it can record HD content.


What my guys are confused about is whether I can hook the JVC into the XBR2 to replay HD recordings in HD. Apparently, the Sony input is something called an iLink, not firewire itself. If I were to hook the JVC's firewire output to the XBR2's iLink input, would it work? Could I timeshift, say, JAG in HiDef?


I *REALLY* appreciate your help -- I'm having to move quickly on this and this site & you all are a terrific source of info. By next week or so, I hope to be able to provide new answers to this conundrum myself.
 

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Dave, Ray,


I think both of you may be right. I happen to have Sony kd34xbr2 as well as the JVC 30K (bought the deck yesterday at jandr for $1099) and here are my findings:


I am able to send the standard definition ntsc tuner signal from jvc to sony over firewire, this means my setup and firewire connection is ok. However the dvhs demo tape that came with the vcr only output its contents through component outs. Being a freedom loving geek, I personally have no problem with that, specially since the quality of component output was breathe taking (you have never seen anything like this! belive me). Now what could be happening with Ray is that the tape he happens to have simply allows output to digital (firewire link). As I said I dont find anything wrong with either approach (prefer analog).


Next I tried to setup recording from the firewire, which simply did not work. The source channel selection simply skips the firewire channel (labeled I-2). This probably means sony is not registering itself as a video source for this vcr.


My next attempt is to record a minidv recording from my sony vx-2000 camcorder to jvc over firewire, if that works, it will be show that I am not making a mistake in recording from iLink source. If however I cannot record from camcorder as well for some reason, it would mean that I am missing something with firewire setup. Unfortunately I had spent almost all night working on the first two experiments and watching the demo tape twice, so this experiment will be my first priority tonight when I get home.


If you think I missed something, let me know and I will try that as well.
 

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The d-theator data is sent out of the firewire. I hooked it up to a sony in a good guys store and watch it. It does work out of the jvc firewire into the sony TV firewire input.


dave
 

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Note of caution,


JVC *does not* have an HD tuner, so no you won't be able to timeshift JAG based on xbr2 alone. The only way to do this is to use a satellite reciever or cable box or external ota tuner with a firewire iLink terminal that is dtcp compatible.


This is ofcourse based on my own experience with the sony xbr2 and available OTA in new york city. Please be careful before investing, I only bought this thing for the sole purpose of watching pre-recorded movies. But if that is not the case with you, I would either wait for a version of this vcr with OTA tuner built-in or an in-expensive firewire based ota tuner.
 

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Dave thats very nice, I could be wrong but I think it depends solely on the tape being played. I donot doubt you or Ray that you guys can play stuff on firewire. However I do think that based on the relatively little penetration of firewire based television sets, JVC might be steering the content under their control, over to analog outputs only (perhaps to reduce confusion). The way I see it, its a winwin situation for us xbr2+jvc combo owners, in that both devices have excellent mpeg2 decoders. Works for me.
 

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Ray,


What exactly do you do to view the tape over fw? Is there some menu setting to select this mode of output? As soon as i play the dvhs tape, xbr2 displays no signal, whereas before it would be showing the regular sdtv via jvc tuner over firewire just fine.


Appreciate your input.


Thanks,

Ahmed
 

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I'll say it again: The JVC needs a tuner. The value of the unit would triple in my eyes and I'd actually buy one.
 

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Why do we keep revisiting this issue again and again. The 30K does not have an HD tuner. Therefore, it must get a HD source from outside itself. There are no component inputs. Therefore, the i-link, firewire, or 1394 connection(whatever you call it) is the only input. We know the 169 modified RCA DTC-100 STB can provide an OTA HD digital signal to the 30K.


We also know that the Sony will accept a digital signal via its firewire connection. The 30K can provide such a signal. I know you should never say never, but except for Ray's one time fluke there is no documentation that the Sony will output its integrated tuner's OTA digital signal via firewire. Indeed the literature available says it will not.


My question has always been will the new Mits RG integrated Tv's output via firewire to the JVC. I find it strange that I have never seen the answer to this. The Mits TV does output to the Mits D-VHS VCR in true two-way fashion, and it SEEMS it should do so to the 30K. Does it?
 

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Hi all,


I guess we all beat dead horses from time to time. If I have been redundent in my posts please forgive me. When a question is asked, I tend to answer it if possible, and seldom give the curt "search the archives" response. I deal with people's technical problems daily, so I guess answering (or trying to within my limitations) comes naturally to me. I enjoy imparting what little knowledge I have that might be of value to someone. I guess I am a people person.


Hi Ahmed, here is exactly what I do. When first installing the 30k in the system, enter the XBR2's setup menu, and scroll through until you see i-Link setup. Entering i-Link setup with the 30k connected via a 4 pin to 4 pin cable, the Sony will detect the JVC and register it as a DH-30000U. I leave the i-Link standby set to off. Once you confirm that the Sony sees the JVC 30k correctly, then by depressing the i-Link button on the Sony remote, and scrolling down from DTV to the DH-30000U entry and pressing enter, you will connect the XBR2 via the FW jack to the 30k. If you have the 30k set to I-1 input, you will see the JVC list the KD-34XBR2's icon active on that link. This will confirm that the two pieces of equipment are communicating properly.


Once this is done, to playback from the JVC via FW, all I have to do is have the 30k on, and hit the i-Link button on the Sony remote or front panel, and then choose the 30k from the menu. The screen will be dark, and the HM-DH30000U icon will be displayed in the upper left hand portion of the screen. If I do not start any tape, and I have no data being input into the 30k, it will display the "No Signal" in yellow at the bottom left of the screen after a few seconds. As soon as I start the D-Theater tape playing, it displays beautiful 1080i content and DD5.1 digital audio. The optical audio out on the XBR2 sends the digital audio stream that is brought in from the firewire 30k connection, out to my Sony DA5ES receiver, which correctly decodes the DD5.1 content and displays it as such. The 30k does not need to be set to I-1 input to playback 1080i through the FW connection, however the time I was able to record OTA 1080i content, I did have to change the input on the 30k to I-1, to feed it the OTA signal from the Sony. I hope this helps.


Ahmed said, " Dave thats very nice, I could be wrong but I think it depends solely on the tape being played."


All three of my tapes are D-Theater encrypted tapes directly received from JVC, and are clearly labeled D-Theater. Motely Crew, Yes, and the Demo tape. All playback flawlessly via FW or Component outs.


mikey mo said, "I know you should never say never, but except for Ray's one time fluke there is no documentation that the Sony will output its integrated tuner's OTA digital signal via firewire. Indeed the literature available says it will not."



What literature??? Let me quote directly from SONY'S service manual, the ultimate authority on what the equipment is and is not...



This is verbatim from page 69, paragraph one in the "Other Information" section of the KD34XBR2 service manual:


"i-Link is a digital serial interface for handling digital video, digital audio, and other data (control commands etc) in TWO DIRECTIONS (I capitalized this) between equipment having an i-Link jack, and for controlling other equipment."


Reading this carefully, how else can one interpret the statement from Sony??? This was also confirmed to me by a Sony engineer just two weeks ago in a phone conversation.


I continue from the fourth paragraph on page 69, under the "About the name i-Link" section:


"i-Link is Sony's term for IEEE 1394 data transport bus, and is a trademark approved by MANY corporations. IEEE 1394 is an International Standard standardized by the Institute of Electrical Electronic Engineers."


"This device functions as a repeater or node, so that the i-Link specific digital signals provided by one device will be relayed to another device that is connected to the first device. This will occur even when second device does not have the means to use the repeater digital signals."


Sony also states that a maximum of 200 Mbps is the data rate in EITHER direction, 400 Mbps total. Nothing here sets this i-Link apart from any IEEE 1394 interface, and it is clearly stated that it meets the IEEE standard, and does so in clear and concise terms.


Now as to whether I can record OTA again with my setup, I cannot say at this time. Sony's documentation seems to say that I can, and Sony's engineering seems to say that I can, and a 30 second OTA tape I have also says that I can. If I can't, I'll buy a STB to output FW for my timeshifting etc. No biggy. :)


I just get frustrated at statements made occasionally about this and other things, that are based in lore and common misconceptions etc. I have seen Dave respond to several of these "statements of fact" in the past. I do not claim that this will work, I claim that it has worked once, that the factory documentation says it SHOULD work, and a factory engineer says it will work. It may not, but odds are better than some here seem to believe, that it will work. I promise I will post results if I ever get any OTA HD content here in the swampy woods of Mississippi. :) I also have the old JVC firmware, and the Sony also has the August 2001 firmware. This May have something to do with what I am able to do, and others are not. Time to go watch "Enterprise"! See you guys later!


Ray :)
 

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Thanks Ray,


I tried exactly those steps before and after you described them, and every time I am able to show the following on firewire:


1. JVC's own ntsc tuner output

2. My minidv camcorder (from tape or staright through)

3. DVHS recording of my minidv tapes


What I was not able to get over firewire was the Dtheater demo tape. Thanks a lot for your help and I appreciate your patience in the matter.


Thanks again,

Ahmed
 

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ahmed,


Even though we think of firewire as digital, the physical portion (connectors, cables, and i/o circuit) is, in fact, analog. As such it is susceptible to noise, and poor connections much like a modem over the phone line. This is particularly true when trying to establish communication between two different brands of DVHS devices. Just because the two boxes recognize each other (via the simpler asynchonous handshaking) does not mean that the more complex higher bit rate isochonous transfer will always be successful. Trying to get the JVC to record from a Panny STB is a good example. It often requires experimenting with different cables, and forcing "bus resets" (unplugging power) to establish a working connection.


Before you give up on this you might want to try some more (preferably shorter) cables.
 

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Question for Ray:


I just bought a 40000, and I can playback D-Theater tapes over I.Link perfectly to my KD-34XBR2.


I would like to tinker with possibly recording OTA HD content from my KD-34XBR2 to the 40000 via I.Link. Can you explicitly describe the steps I should perform to try and make this happen?


I would almost assume that as long as you have the 40000 turned on and viewing the I-1 input and if you're watching an HD channel on the 34XBR2, all you would have to do is keep viewing the channel on the 34XBR2 and then hit the record button on the 40000, right?
 
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