[RGlass]

Well enough talking, waiting, head scratching, eye-ball poping viewing store demos; I purchased and took delivery of the 61’ JVC HD-ILA set. I have a Dennon DVD-3910 connected to the HDMI input which I am still earning how to use. I do not have cable installed yet.


My first impression was, wow it is just a little bigger than I thought. I will be sitting about 9 feet from the set.


I choose this unit over the Hitachi VS810 (and Sony XBR). In my case the Hitachi’s reflective screen would be an issue. I have done little to no calibration from the factory settings. I have played portions or all of the following movies so far:


Star Wars Ep I

Star Wars Ep II

Star Wars Ep IV

Jurassic Park 1

Men in Black 1


I like the picture so far but I have noticed some things I dislike that I did not see in the store. There are times the picture appears grainy. Not pixilated but like looking at an old movie. I have noticed the grainy picture on some scenes in Jurassic Park. The grainy scenes are usually darker, and appear in the background. I suspect the source of the grainy images to be the DVD itself rather than the TV. I did not see any grainy scenes during Star Wars Ep. IV (I forgot how much I love that movie). I was surprised because that is an older film than Jurassic Park.


Another item of not is green-ish blacks. At times I have seen in the upper right hand corner of an all black screen a green/black color. However while playing some DVDs (I forget which) a all black image is shown and I do not see the green-ish tint.


One last comment; while watching Star Wars the dark scenes in space I notice block fading in/out at the bottom of the screen. As I paid more attention to the blocks I realized they appear to be compression artifacts. I played with the DVD player and appeared to select a different output setting for the HDMI output and the blocks disappeared. The DVD player is new and I am still learning about its nuances. I will try component cables soon as I expect the HD cable box will have a DVI connector.


I have picked up a video essentials DVD and will do an end user calibration tonight. I plan on having the set professionally calibrated soon.


Are there any tests/movies anyone would like me to try?

 

[John Mason]

Reads like everything you've viewed so far requires upconversion to 1280X720 for the set's three DILA microdisplays. Curious to learn how native 720p programs appear, or 1080i images that require downconversion to 720p. -- John

 

[PackFan]

OK... This is getting downright unfair...


I bought my JVC HD-61Z585 on September 6th. I called the JVC Midwest sales office today, and was told not to expect shipment until sometime in NOVEMBER...

 

[Kid Red]

9' for a 61"!?!?!? Holy cow. I'm in the camp that thinks 10' for the 52" is pushing it. I saw the JVC at BB and as much as I want to like the set, I kept seeing the grainy and noisy issue on DVDs. Their HD feed looked fine. So, I concluded that the 52" might need to be 11-12' to not notice the compression/whatever flaws. So, 61" at 9', wow, I feel for you. I'd downgrade to the 52" and get some extra cash back.

 

[dougpt10]

Bought the 61" yesterday. Could have had it delivered today but chose Friday so I can be home and maybe construct my stand before it comes. I will be sitting most of the time about 7-8'. My second seating area however is about 25' away which is why I went for the 61 as I thought the 52 would be too small. I am use to the 50" we have now so I think I'll be able to adjust to the 61. I might have to move "my" recliner back a few feet which I can do to make it more like 10-11 ft.

 

[tokerblue]

Can you change the Aspect Ratio on the HDMI 720p material? I'm curious as I was looking at the Denon 1910 and it doesn't automatically pillarbox 4:3 material.

 

[RGlass]

I opened up the manuals that came with the 61†JVC HD-ILA and the Denon DVD-3910. I discovered that I had set the Denon HDMI output to deliver 1080i to the JVC. I changed that to 720p. I tried to find the grainy scenes in Jurassic Park to see if they improved. I couldn’t seem to find them again.


Funny thing about the manual for the JVC, it warned about burn-in. It referred to tickers (news/stocks) that scroll at the bottom of the screen; it even talked about network logos possibly causing a problem. I was under the impression that burn-in is not an issue with this set. I expect the manual is incorrect.


My biggest concern is how “clean†dark/black scene appears. I have seen what appears to be noise in some dark images. Not shaped as blocks that would be cause by compression/decompression. I have seen those blocks when the HDMI output on the Denon DVD-3910 is configured for HDMI Y Cb Cr; those blocks go away when the output is configured as HDMI R G B.


I broke out my Video Essentials DVD and played around with calibrating the TV. I have never done this before. I made the mistake of starting that towards the end of the evening and my eyes were tired. I think I managed to partially calibrate the black levels and the red, green, and blue portion (color/tint). I am not convinced I did a good job.


One of the tests drew boxes on the screen. I noticed that the top line all but disappears on the top right. Not the entire line but most of it. The entire image is straight but it looks like the top right is missing some pixels?


I want to have an ISF person calibrate this set. After about an hour or so of running DVE I put in another movie. I can understand why a good ISF person charges $300-$400 for calibrating a set. It isn’t easy, at least for me. Afterwards I viewed parts of LOR: The Fellowship of the Ring and the picture was clean and bright.


This Thursday I will have my cable turned on. I am getting digital cable along with a bunch of HD channels. My cable company is Insight. Their HD cable box uses component outputs. I have purchased some Audioquest cables to try with their box. I will post (probably Friday) with my impressions of HD and SD.


Answers to some previous posts:

When viewing video at 720p the TV doesn’t appear to allow you to change the aspect ration from 16:9 to 4x3. I have some 4x3 DVD material I will try later today and post the results.


I purchased my set from hhGreg in Indianapolis, IN. The have some in stock.


I was concerned about the size of the set vs. the 9-10 feet viewing distance. On viewing the first night I believe I did see some SDE on some scenes. With the adjustments to 720p I could not locate those scenes again. I will try again, probably end up watching Jurassic Park over again. For some reason the video quality in Jurassic Park appears to be different than every other movie I have tried (see my previous post).


I have read some other posts about the fan noise on the JVC. Well I can defiantly hear the fan; even from across the room when everything else is silent. So far this hasn’t bothered me. I plan on putting up something decorative behind the TV to help dampen the room. I suspect this could help with the fan noise.


Sorry for the long post, I’ll stop rambling on now.

 

[John Mason]

Regarding component or DVI/HDMI inputs for your DILA set, there are lots of differing results between displays. But it appears, for a true all-digital path, a plasma or DLP display is needed. DILA is a type of LCOS and both are types of LCDs. Here's a recent post outlining upcoming LCOS displays that use digital signals at the final stage instead of analog (for potential all-digital processing). -- John

 

[Brandon B]

Quote:

I did not see any grainy scenes during Star Wars Ep. IV (I forgot how much I love that movie). I was surprised because that is an older film than Jurassic Park.

Lowry Digital's restoration of Star Wars removed pretty much any trace of film grain that was originally present. Jurassic Park has not gone through a similar process so its original film grain remains.


BB

 

[navychop]

Just to clarify about that comment on "upcoming LCoS displays that use digital signals" - The JVC D-ILA uses the Aurora chip for their RPTVs. So the current JVC RPTVs are already all digital. It is only the (commercial) JVC FPTVs that use the JVC analog chips.

 

[RGlass]

I have a TV series on DVD in a 4x3 format. My Denon DVD-3910 is connected via the HDMI output/input to the JVC. When I played the 4x3 DVD the Denon sent a 16x9 signal to the TV. The JVC aspect ratio feature did not support converting that image to a 4x3. I changed the DVD player “squeeze mode†option to ON and I saw a 4x3 image on the JVC.


I watched some of season 5, Disk 1 of Babylon 5. This is a 16x9 DVD. The computer generated space scenes look good. The video itself looked pretty good as well. At times I could see the grainy video I have talked about in my previous messages.


I put in the Usual Suspects. I did not see any grainy video. The images were clean and detail.


I suspect the grainy video I have been talking about is more a result of the source rather than the display. I am going to take the Babylon 5 DVD to the store and compare it on the 52†and the Hitachi V810 51â€. I suspect I will see a similar grainy image on both TVs.


Has anyone asked JVC why the manual specifically warns about burn-in where as everyone else I have talked with said this set is not subject to burn-in?


My cable installation is scheduled for Thursday and I will have a SD/HD update.

 

[PackFan]

Quote:

Originally posted by RGlass I have a TV series on DVD in a 4x3 format. My Denon DVD-3910 is connected via the HDMI output/input to the JVC. When I played the 4x3 DVD the Denon sent a 16x9 signal to the TV. The JVC aspect ratio feature did not support converting that image to a 4x3. I changed the DVD player “squeeze mode†option to ON and I saw a 4x3 image on the JVC. I watched some of season 5, Disk 1 of Babylon 5. This is a 16x9 DVD. The computer generated space scenes look good. The video itself looked pretty good as well. At times I could see the grainy video I have talked about in my previous messages. I put in the Usual Suspects. I did not see any grainy video. The images were clean and detail. I suspect the grainy video I have been talking about is more a result of the source rather than the display. I am going to take the Babylon 5 DVD to the store and compare it on the 52†and the Hitachi V810 51â€. I suspect I will see a similar grainy image on both TVs. Has anyone asked JVC why the manual specifically warns about burn-in where as everyone else I have talked with said this set is not subject to burn-in? My cable installation is scheduled for Thursday and I will have a SD/HD update.

There is no risk of burn-in on these sets. I believe that JVC has admitted that it was left in the manual by mistake (originally from an old CRT RP manual).

 

[RGlass]

Last night I played The Empire Strikes Back. The movie opens on Hoth. Most of the background is off-white to white. I noticed something troubling.


On the top left side of the screen I noticed what looked like clear tape in small un-even 1†x 1†sizes that traveled up the left side of the display. At first I thought there was some tape resedue left over from shipping that I didn’t previously notice. Upon close examination there was nothing on the outside of the display.


It looks as if a small paintbrush was used to darken small un-even blocks on the inside of the display. I noticed a few smaller of these marks on the far right hand part of the display. This is not a dead pixel. If you were to take a 1†lengths of normal clear tape (scotch tape) and put them on the display that is what they looked like from a distance.


I watched the rest of the movie. After the movie concluded I went back to the bright scenes in Hoth. All the marks were gone. I am truly confused as to what they might be; not dead pixels, nothing physically scratched, not part of the video being played, something that vanished over the length of the movie.


Any ideas?

 

[Lastblade]

Quote:

Originally posted by RGlass Last night I played The Empire Strikes Back. The movie opens on Hoth. Most of the background is off-white to white. I noticed something troubling. On the top left side of the screen I noticed what looked like clear tape in small un-even 1†x 1†sizes that traveled up the left side of the display. At first I thought there was some tape resedue left over from shipping that I didn’t previously notice. Upon close examination there was nothing on the outside of the display. It looks as if a small paintbrush was used to darken small un-even blocks on the inside of the display. I noticed a few smaller of these marks on the far right hand part of the display. This is not a dead pixel. If you were to take a 1†lengths of normal clear tape (scotch tape) and put them on the display that is what they looked like from a distance. I watched the rest of the movie. After the movie concluded I went back to the bright scenes in Hoth. All the marks were gone. I am truly confused as to what they might be; not dead pixels, nothing physically scratched, not part of the video being played, something that vanished over the length of the movie. Any ideas?

Just a wild (and probably wrong) guess. In the manual, it states that if there is condensation in the screen, it could produce some weird effects (I am just paraphasing here as I don't have the manual in front of me). I recall that after the TV is turn on and the condensation is evaporated, then all will be fine.


I hope it is anyway, since the problem went away.

 

[RGlass]

I looked today and the smear marks were back. I suspect it is condensation. Who would have thought there would be water in the TV? I will keep an eye on this.


Have any other HD-ILA owners seen any condensation marks in the TV?

 

[falsedawn]

Quote:

Originally posted by RGlass I looked today and the smear marks were back. I suspect it is condensation. Who would have thought there would be water in the TV? I will keep an eye on this. Have any other HD-ILA owners seen any condensation marks in the TV?

A very similiar phenonemon has been observed in the Samsung DLP's. You might want to check those threads for the explanation, but in general, the culprit in the Samsungs is claimed to be the two layers of the screen sticking together. It disappears after the set warms up but returns when cold. Most users report it goes away for good in a few weeks/months. Some users have lightly rubbed the spots with a soft cloth and gotten them to go away temporarily (maybe by reducing static?).

 

[lorenzow]

Quote:

Originally posted by PackFan OK... This is getting downright unfair... I bought my JVC HD-61Z585 on September 6th. I called the JVC Midwest sales office today, and was told not to expect shipment until sometime in NOVEMBER...

Quote:

Victor Co. of Japan Ltd., which makes audio-visual products under the JVC brand, said it might increase production of its large-sized rear projection televisions to meet demand in the U.S. ``We're considering raising production of our HD-ILA models early next year because they are very popular,'' Senior Managing Director Eiichi Tsuchiya said in an interview this week. ``We currently make about 10,000 units a month but backorder is piling up. Demand in the U.S. is all we can handle now.''

 

[RGlass]

Insight Communications has connected me to their cable system. It has been over a month since I have had any TV/Cable service. I can honestly say I didn’t quite miss it. I have signed up for all the HD stations offered by Insight. I have learned some things about HD. Not all HD signals are created equal. I was under the impression HD is HD is HD.


No.


I have the 3 major networks broadcasting in HD. Last night CBS was showing a expanded (they expanded it) 4x3 in HD. The picture was clearer than the SD broadcast it was very lacking. The JVC would not let me change the picture to 4x3; I expect because it was receiving a 16x9 HD signal. I wonder if all CBS’s HD broadcasts are just 4x3 expanded to 16x9.


Ok, now onto the TV itself. I have a Motorola HD/DVR/Cable box from Insight connected directly to the JVC by component cables. The SD channels were not as clear as my 8+ year old 30†tube. They didn’t look bad; in fact I am not disappointed. The SD channels looked like, well, like TV. Some channels looked better than others.


The Insight cable installer told me that the box I will be using is slated for replacement in the very near future. One of the biggest complaints about this box is the SD channels. The installer told me he has brought this DVR box out to replace existing digital cable boxes and the SD channels looked worse than they did with the digital box being replaced. They are finishing up work on a new box to address this and some DVR issues. The lower number channels (2-10) are affected most.


The installer did comment that the lower channels (the worst on this DVR box) were coming in much better than he has seen in the past. He said that on some TVs the channels were very bad. Admittedly on the JVC they were all watch-able.


The HD channels (the good ones) were wonderful. I even moved my chair a little closer to the TV. The ballgame last night came through very clean, clear and bright. I admit some colors looked overly bright at times. The Discovery HD channel is also quite wonderful. I believe no matter what TV you may purchase it will probably look better when you get it home. I believe the video feed in the most/all BM stores do not do any of these TVs justice.

Reflective Screen

In my earlier posts I explained one the primary reasons for choosing the JVC over the Hitachi VS810 was the reflective nature of the Hitachi. I am not regretting that decision. Now that I have had the JVC in its location for 6 days now I believe the reflective Hitachi screen would have been enough of a distraction to cause me to return the TV.

Smudge Update:

They were back, but disappeared after some time period of watching the TV. I will try to time how long it takes for them to fade away. I will probably contact JVC for their comments. There were fewer smudges last night than there was when I first noticed them during the Hoth scenes in Empire Strikes Back. Maybe they will eventually all go away?

JVC Blacks

I confess I have not spent enough time calibrating the TV. In dark scenes I feel I am losing detail into black. I believe this can be fixed with a proper calibration; I just need to figure out how to do that.

Green-ish tint on blacks

I am beginning to suspect the greenish tint I have occasionally seen on black images are a result of the source. They don’t always appear to be present. I need to find a true black image to test. Hopefully there is one on the Video Essentials DVD.

Viewing Distance

I am sitting 9-10 feet from the 61†set. That seems to be OK for most of my viewing. I could sit closer on a good HD signal. DVDs are fine. Most SD and some bad HD would benefit from a further distance. So far I am happy with the 61†– 9/10 feet viewing distance.

Fan Noise

Yep, its there alright; but it just doesn’t seem to bother me. I suspect that some fans are not as loud as the one in my set. For me this isn’t enough of an issue to cause me to return the TV.

Is there anything I have missed in looking at this set?

 

[Kid Red]

I notice you did not mention digital noise or SSE. At 10' you don't see any of that on your 61"? At BB the JVC looked sweet in HD, but had a lot of grain and noise on DVD. Curious if you see any sitting that close to that big of a set.

 

[RGlass]

I have noticed grainy images in both SD and some DVDs. I have seen grainy scenes in Jurassic Park and Babylon 5. The grainy images are not near as apparent on some other DVDs that I have viewed, including the Star Wars DVDs and the Usual Suspects.


If the TV is given good quality video it will do a good job. If the TV is given fair quality video I believe does an OK to good job. When I think about SD and the Babylon 5 DVDs I start wondering if a smaller 50†JVC or maybe other model would have been a better choice. I don’t believe I have seen much of the screen door effect. Most of the visual symptoms are the graininess of the video. I still plan on taking some DVDs back to the store and look at the JVC and Hitachi 50†models.