[fleaman]

Saw the cine4home review of the first jvc auto cal. They didnt recommend to use a spyder on a new pj.

There's no other choice than the Spyder for the JVC autocal.

 

[fleaman]

I have a 5500 and think red is a bit to much and perhaps green too and was wondering to go the spyder 5 way if its precise enough.
What about using your eyes? Lol. I think for colors it should be doable. Gamma curves less so.

Try the 7000k or 7500k color presets.

Also, if your lamp is new, they sometimes have a bit more red until they age a few hundred hrs. Or at least that was how it used to be years ago...

 

[nathan_h]

There's no other choice than the Spyder for the JVC autocal.

For 2015, the subject of this thread, that is true. I think that changes in later model years.

 

[nathan_h]

Saw the cine4home review of the first jvc auto cal. They didnt recommend to use a spyder on a new pj.
With the current software rev and spyder 5 is the consensus still the same?

I have a 5500 and think red is a bit to much and perhaps green too and was wondering to go the spyder 5 way if its precise enough.
What about using your eyes? Lol. I think for colors it should be doable. Gamma curves less so.

Had an xrite pro a few years back and it was fine but will not go full in again due to time.

A good Spyder is good enough but it’s unlikely your eyes can judge the results well.

So, after running autocal with the Spyder: Bust out the xrite and something like Calman or HCFR to fine tune the results — and you will be in great shape.

Some people skip the fine tuning step and are fine with the autocal results.

 

[Menion]

My understanding is that with a change to any of the following:

- Lamp high/low
- Filter on/off
- CMD on/off
- Iris (changes of more than a few clicks either way)

You should probably rerun your autocal. In your case, you might be able to correct gamma/grayscale fine using Calman/HCFR with the internal controls. Really depends on how far off they are.

OK, so coming back to my question, it means that the calibration done with CMD off is still applied with CMD on (if the gamma and color profile is the same) but maybe suboptimal.
It is still not clear to me how the calibration is stored and applied. If I reverse the question, so I calibrate CMD on AND CMD off, those two calibration will be kept separated, or?

 

[Dominic Chan]

OK, so coming back to my question, it means that the calibration done with CMD off is still applied with CMD on (if the gamma and color profile is the same) but maybe suboptimal.
It is still not clear to me how the calibration is stored and applied. If I reverse the question, so I calibrate CMD on AND CMD off, those two calibration will be kept separated, or?

Those 4 factors mentioned by strawberry all affect calibration. I'm not sure where you draw the line between "invalid" and "suboptimal". The calibration results are stored separately, that's why in a complete set of autocal you would change those factors one at a time, and do a save.

 

[asharma]

Completely forgot about that. Both would be incorrect, so I need to look into this (not sure when I'll be able to). You can't just replace color profile after the autocal and expect accurate results. I would expect the results to be better using a colour profile without a filter before applying BT2020-NF, but you need to take measurements after the autocal to find which would give best results.

Hi Manni...would I be totally whacked to import the BT2020NF profile and not rerun Autocal but continue to use my custom Arve curve, perhaps just adjusting black levels? Just trying to increase my brightness w/o dropping $3k on an increased gain screen...thanks

 

[nathan_h]

Your gray scale and color space will be a bit whacked, as will your gamma, I suspect.

 

[Manni01]

Hi Manni...would I be totally whacked to import the BT2020NF profile and not rerun Autocal but continue to use my custom Arve curve, perhaps just adjusting black levels? Just trying to increase my brightness w/o dropping $3k on an increased gain screen...thanks

As I said, it won't be correct. I can't say how incorrect it will be or which profile is better to use during the autocal until I run measurements.

And I have no idea when I'll be able to do so.

It would be madness to get a new screen just for that reason. First because it would be much cheaper to hire a competent calibrator to get a good calibration with the brightness you have, which is not ideal but is enough to get very good results in HDR using BT2020 and a custom curve, and two because the difference is only 10-15%. It's better than nothing, but it's not enough to give you what a screen with a higher gain would give you if that's really what you need. Problem is, such a screen will also raise your black levels.

So be patient, I'll investigate this when I have the time, but asking about it won't make it happen faster.

In the meantime, there is no harm in trying BT-2020NF without running an autocal. If it's accurate enough to make the moderate increase in brightness worth the loss in accuracy, then just use it like that.

 

[asharma]

As I said, it won't be correct. I can't say how incorrect it will be or which profile is better to use during the autocal until I run measurements.

And I have no idea when I'll be able to do so.

It would be madness to get a new screen just for that reason. First because it would be much cheaper to hire a competent calibrator to get a good calibration with the brightness you have, which is not ideal but is enough to get very good results in HDR using BT2020 and a custom curve, and two because the difference is only 10-15%. It's better than nothing, but it's not enough to give you what a screen with a higher gain would give you if that's really what you need. Problem is, such a screen will also raise your black levels.

So be patient, I'll investigate this when I have the time, but asking about it won't make it happen faster.


In the meantime, there is no harm in trying BT-2020NF without running an autocal. If it's accurate enough to make the moderate increase in brightness worth the loss in accuracy, then just use it like that.

Ok, imported BT2020NF...chapter 13 BVS, where that monster thing is starting to light up, with fire in its veins, BT2020 is much more accurately orangey fire in the veins where as bt2020 no filter is more clipped white fire in the veins...all using the same custom curve...would u recommend trying to tweak my curve or do u feel this may be more fundamental to the NF color profile and Autocal?

 

[Manni01]

Ok, imported BT2020NF...chapter 13 BVS, where that monster thing is starting to light up, with fire in its veins, BT2020 is much more accurately orangey fire in the veins where as bt2020 no filter is more clipped white fire in the veins...all using the same custom curve...would u recommend trying to tweak my curve or do u feel this may be more fundamental to the NF color profile and Autocal?

I'm not recommending anything until I have the time to measure and investigate. So please let it go or measure yourself. I don't know when I'll have the time to look into this. As soon as I do, I'll post here.

 

[asharma]

I'm not recommending anything until I have the time to measure and investigate. So please let it go or measure yourself. I don't know when I'll have the time to look into this. As soon as I do, I'll post here.

Thanks, I’ll let it go...using bt2020 for now...thanks again

 

[Dreamliner]

Custom Curves Quick DIY

This guide encompasses every step you need to load custom curves onto your projector and get rocking with 4K HDR. All of this is reversible and none of it is permanent, so no worries. A custom curve will significantly increase the quality of your HDR content and it only takes about 30 minutes to follow the instructions below for the first time.

In step 3 I link to a couple different curves on this forum to download. Feel free to choose your own if you find one, there is no harm in trying different curves, the projector has 3 slots for custom curves and you can overwrite them as many times as you want. You can also make your own but that process is a bit different. More information here. If you are fresh to 4K now is the time to replace your HDMI cables or you will probably have problems, more information here. I have links to posts in my sig for a reason, look at them.

This is the quick and dirty guide and will get you what you want, quickly:

1) This is the JVC Calibration Software you want to import premade gamma curves, you can also use it later to do color calibration if you want. Install this software on a PC connected to the same network as your projector. Do this first. Connect your projector to your network, check the IP address of your projector in the settings menu and enter it into the settings screen (the gear) on the software and click 'check' to verify connection. (The PDF in step 4 explains this in more detail if you need it)

2) Download the BT2020 color profile from here. Its under step 2. (You might already have this loaded on your projector)

3) Download and try some curves from this post (download via his Dropbox link) (Thanks Javs) or this post (Thanks Manni) or this post (Thanks Dominic). Full credit to Javs, Manni and Dominic on these curves, I did not make them, they did. (Or feel free to use any other curve you find on the forum)

4) Use these Import Procedure directions to load the BT2020 profile you downloaded in step 2. (If you have trouble connecting your PC to your projector, follow these steps).

5) Use the same process as step 4 to load the custom gamma curve, but you select 'gamma' from the pull-down menu on the import/export screen instead of 'color profile'. If you really want brightness, I'd start with Javs "Javs 1200nit V3" gamma curve inside the "Autocal Versions" folder in his dropbox link and/or Manni's "Manni-HDR10-BC1K" gamma curve in his zip folder into and/or "Gamma3_30_Adjusted" into Custom 3 from Dominic. (Or feel free to use any other curve you find on the forum and load them to whichever custom slot you choose)

3/4/5 alternate) You can also load a curve or two using the ARVE tool and JAVS curves. This process is a bit more complicated but his recent V3 curves are very good. Curves and steps here. Javs has also provided the regular curves to import in step 4 but the Arve tool method will technically yield a slightly better result if you like his curves. (I personally saw no difference between the loaded curve and this method but it is ‘technically’ bettter).

6) Okay all done on the PC for now. Go to your projector and stick in a 4K disc get it loaded up so the movie is playing.

7) Now we're going to set up your picture settings for HDR movies on your projector. Press a User Mode on the remote (I have a few different profiles set up so my User 1 is for HD, User 2 is for HDR and User 3 is for 3D). Choose and press a user mode that makes sense to you, then go into the projector Picture Adjust Menu and change the color profile to BT.2020. Change Gamma to Custom 1 (or where you loaded the custom gamma from step 5), then right below that in the gamma screen, change correction value to Import. (Very important to select Import, otherwise it won't load the profile you imported in step 5). I'd also suggest turning on High Lamp, CMD Off, Auto Iris off, Iris Manual on 0 and Clear Black Low. (Iris, CMD & Clear Black is a preference though).

8) Going forward, once you put in a 4K movie, all you need to do is choose that user mode and it will recall all the settings from step 7. Then once the movie is actually playing, you just need to hit the gamma button to change from Gamma D to Custom 1 (the projector will always default to Gamma D). You can also rename the Picture Mode from "User 1, 2 or 3" to "HDR" or something to make it easier for you.

That's it. Basically, in recap, load in the BT2020 and custom gamma profile with the software, choose a user mode on the remote and select the BT2020 and custom gamma profiles.

All this will take about 20-30 minutes the first time. Its pretty quick. You can try different gamma curves in slot 2 & 3 also and overwrite them all as you see fit. Once you get the hang of it you will only spend like 2 minutes loading a gamma profile. REMEMBER, be CERTAIN the gamma correction value is set to IMPORT on the projector, otherwise it's just gamma normal.

 

[JJ7]

For 2015, the subject of this thread, that is true. I think that changes in later model years.

Is spyder5 still the only option for RS540?

 

[nathan_h]

Depends on which version of Autocal you use. Good news is that the same page where you download Autocal will also have info about which meters are compatible.

 

[Dominic Chan]

Is spyder5 still the only option for RS540?

RS540 uses v10 software which supports Spyder5 and i1Pro2.

 

[tswire]

Clarifying question...for basic (non expert lol) testing of black clipping using Arve tool, bbo function and the black clipping track from Ryan Masciola, I should set bbo so that line 77 is perfectly black and faintly see 81? I know there are more technical discussions going on but is this a good start?

 

[nathan_h]

Yes, that is the best practice/most common recommendation, IIRC, with the Arve tool.

 

[Manni01]

Clarifying question...for basic (non expert lol) testing of black clipping using Arve tool, bbo function and the black clipping track from Ryan Masciola, I should set bbo so that line 77 is perfectly black and faintly see 81? I know there are more technical discussions going on but is this a good start?

Yes, that is the best practice/most common recommendation, IIRC, with the Arve tool.

That might change though as we're doing tests at the moment to figure out 1) if there are only a couple of 0.005nits titles with raised blacks (Lucy and Oblivion led us to think it was the majority, but in fact it might just be a few poorly mastered early masters) and 2) if clipping black at 77 instead of 64 leads to any significant black crush or not.

We're discussing this in the main 2015 models thread, so I suggest anyone interested follows that.

Otherwise, the recommendation is the same as always: if you want to do it correctly, black is 64 and you resolve down to 68 (legal curve). If you want avoid raised black in some titles (not sure how many, it might be just a couple, so far less than initially expected), then black at 77 and resolve down to 81 (illegal curve), knowing that it might/will cost you a minor loss in shadow details (similar to clipping level 17 in HD).

 

[Kris Deering]

Everest is another title with the black issue. Seems it was only a handful of initial Universal titles that had the black issue.