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Discussion Starter · #421 ·
That's excellent greyscale tracking Manni, after the MadVR cal.

Have you been able to run a 3D LUT for Rec2020 yet?
There is no point for me in running a 3D LUT in BT2020 as there is no way to get UHD Bluray content to the HTPC, so no way to get MadVR magic to work.

Also, MadVR doesn't support HDR yet, it only does an (excellent) HDR to SDR conversion. We need the new GPUs with HDMI 2.0a and HDR support in the drivers and APIs for MadVR to be able to passthrough HDR content and not convert it to SDR. Hopefully with the nVidia 1080 and the AMDs coming out, this will happen soon.
 

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These two Spyders were not bad. They were only worse than my Golden Spyder 4. If you have a way to set 100% white to D65 after calibration, most people would be extremely happy with the results. If you look at the results just after the Autocal, they are "OK". Not what you'd get from a Pro calibration, or with a better unit, but they are not awful, and certainly better than what you'd get after a few hundred hours without being able to calibrate. The blue filter was off and led to a slight undersaturation in blue, which I don't want, but I doubt this would be visible with real content. Also, after the JVC Autocal, the gamut linearity was close to perfect, and that only would make a huge PQ difference.

Remember, the "before" calibration when I did my tests was the Autocal made with the Spyder 4 a few weeks ago. That was much better than what you'd get OOTB, or even more after a few hundreds hours without any calibration whatsoever.

As I said, any Spyder will get you 80% there, which for the price isn't bad. Especially if you autocal my rec-709 profile (or the BT2020 profile). If you're picky, or if you're replacing an excellent unit like I am, then yes, you need to be careful.

Not warming-up the projector for at least 30mn produces worse errors than the Spyder 5s.
Thanks for the clarification, Manni! I do have Chromapure and an I1D3 meter so I think I can set 100% white at D6500. So if I understand you correctly, I should run the JVC autocal and then switch over to chromapure and adjust 100% white to D65? Is it the same process for BT2020? I plan on using your REC 709NF profile to calibrate for blu ray.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #424 ·
Thanks for the clarification, Manni! I do have Chromapure and an I1D3 meter so I think I can set 100% white at D6500. So if I understand you correctly, I should run the JVC autocal and then switch over to chromapure and adjust 100% white to D65? Is it the same process for BT2020? I plan on using your REC 709NF profile to calibrate for blu ray.

Thanks
Yes, that's the way! :)

Same for BT2020.
 

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So, I got my spider 5 and I did an autocal. I have mixed feelings about the results. More than likely I did something wrong in the process, and there is always the chance that I got a bad spyder. I saved the various runs and I wanted to post the charts for you guys to review but I can't seem to open the (.cbd) files. Anyone know how to open these files?
 

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Discussion Starter · #430 ·
So, I got my spider 5 and I did an autocal. I have mixed feelings about the results. More than likely I did something wrong in the process, and there is always the chance that I got a bad spyder. I saved the various runs and I wanted to post the charts for you guys to review but I can't seem to open the (.cbd) files. Anyone know how to open these files?
You can't open the files, you have to take the screenshots before saving the calibration.

Make sure you follow all the instructions, especially meter placement (facing the projector, not the screen). All info in links and posts at the beginning of the thread.
 

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As always this thread owes a great deal to Manni's thorough approach and attention to detail. Love your work !!
Yes Muzz, great to see that for most of us the Environment adjustments would PROBABLY be detrimental to performance.
Unfortunately, having no way to check whether the Spyder 5 acquired is an accurate one, for me the whole process still becomes a bit of a lottery, so "buying the cheapest ticket" is still my preferred option.
Express it will be.

IMDave, did you manage to buy & try the Express? I'm also Oz based and can't stomach $290 for a meter especially if there is a chance it won't be as accurate as it should. $190 is worth the risk.
 

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IMDave, did you manage to buy & try the Express? I'm also Oz based and can't stomach $290 for a meter especially if there is a chance it won't be as accurate as it should. $190 is worth the risk.
Being from Oz, of course deandob, you'll appreciate this:
Dropped into the store (unmentioned) on Friday to discuss the Datacolor Spyder 5 range.
Of course they didn't have any stock, so they'd have to order in for me. I asked him about their "Return policy" if I found that the colourimeter was found to be inaccurate. He said "nobody has ever returned one." I said that if you were going to use something as a Reference upon which a calibration was to be based, then the Reference should be accurate. He said, "I'm sure if it works, it will be accurate."
At the end of the day, I decided to take a punt, so I got out my credit card for the Express model. ($A188).
Now remember, it's Friday. He cashs the card and says, "Ok then, so I'll place the order on Monday, and we'll give you a call when it arrives".
Once it arrives and I work through Manni's instructions I'll let everyone know if the Express does work with Version 7 on my X7000.
 

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IMDave,


Our consumer protection laws do allow us to return goods that are not 'fit for purpose' although likely it will be a fight with the retailer & having to prove it will be a hassle. Unfortunately not like our American friends who can return most things no questions asked.


Do let us know how you go. Its likely the Express does have the ambient light sensor but its not active in their software (as it is more expensive to produce 2 different sets of hardware versus just one for all models). Lets see!
 

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You can't open the files, you have to take the screenshots before saving the calibration.

Make sure you follow all the instructions, especially meter placement (facing the projector, not the screen). All info in links and posts at the beginning of the thread.
Thanks Manni, I will do screen shots next time I run an autocal. being so used to chromapure, I thought i could reopen the files after saving. Before I saved the HDR files i noticed that my gamma curve looked like an "S," is that normal? My 709NF line looked pretty much like a straight line and so did my SDR BT2020 line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #435 ·
Thanks Manni, I will do screen shots next time I run an autocal. being so used to chromapure, I thought i could reopen the files after saving. Before I saved the HDR files i noticed that my gamma curve looked like an "S," is that normal? My 709NF line looked pretty much like a straight line and so did my SDR BT2020 line.
You don't need to redo gamma unless you change lamp mode, filter mode or CMD mode. Everytime you run gamma, it will redo all the presets for that combination of lamp mode, filter mode and CMD mode.

Everytime you run a gamma autocal, the line should be straight. If it's an S shape, something went wrong.
 

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IMDave,


Our consumer protection laws do allow us to return goods that are not 'fit for purpose' although likely it will be a fight with the retailer & having to prove it will be a hassle. Unfortunately not like our American friends who can return most things no questions asked.
...
Our "American no questions asked" policy is a retail policy not enshrined in law. It has been a competitive necessity as retailers like Amazon and B&H step up to the plate and just do it. I don't know how they make it work, but it sure is great. I'm not a "small government conservative" but this is a case where the free market system has somehow forced retailers to behave.
 

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You don't need to redo gamma unless you change lamp mode, filter mode or CMD mode. Everytime you run gamma, it will redo all the presets for that combination of lamp mode, filter mode and CMD mode.

Everytime you run a gamma autocal, the line should be straight. If it's an S shape, something went wrong.
Thanks Manni! Looks like I am due for another marathon session of autocaling. CLearly I took a wrong turn somewhere.

This is what I did:

Step 1

I started with calibrating in
Picture Mode Natural,
Standard Color Profile,
6500K Preset,
Gamma Normal,
Iris Manual and fully open
and all processing turned off.
Ran a full 33-step Gamma AND colour calibration.
Saved results.
Switched over to Chromapure and my i1d3 and calibrated 100% white.


Step 2
I then selected
Picture Mode User 1 (where I saved your 709NF Profile),
CUSTOM 1 gamma (with 2.4 preset and +2 on dark gamma for a BT1886)
Color Profile 709NF, 6500K preset,
Iris Manual at -11,
Lamp on LOW
All processing off
Ran ONLY a color calibration.
Saved results
After saving results, I switched to chromapure and calibrated 100% white.



Step 3 for HDR BT2020,
I selected User 2 Picture Mode (where I stored the JVC BT2020 Profile),
Color Profile REFERENCE,
6500K Preset,
Gamma D with the +12, +5, +5 settings,
Iris Manual and fully open
Lamp on HIGH
Run a FULL 33 Step Gamma AND Color Calibration.
Save results
Switch to Chromapure and i1D3 meter and calibrate 100% white


Step 4

For SDR BT2020
User 3 Picture Mode
Color profile REFERENCE
6500K preset
Custom 2 Gamma with 2.4 preset and +2 on dark gamma for BT1886
Manual Iris, fully open
Lamp on LOW
Ran full 33 point Gamma and Color Calibration
Saved results
Switched to Chromapure with i1D3 meter and calibrated 100% white


Just for clarification, Manni, your suggestions for doing an HDR BT2020 autocal:

HDR BT2020 in user2 (for UHD Bluray)
Colour profile: BT.2020 (JVC's)
Color Temp: User2, with the 6500K preset
Gamma: User2, with the 2.4 preset and +2 on dark gamma for BT1886 (selected by default for non HDR UHD Blurays) and with the Gamma D preset with +10 on picture tone, +5 on dark gamma and +5 on bright gamma. Set these two gamma presets so that the correct one will be applied depending on the way the disc is mastered. All current UHD Blurays use HDR so Gamma D should be selected automatically, but if you set up the PJ in SDR mode you need to select the gamma that will be applied in SDR.
Iris: fully open to get 240nits
Lamp: high



Questions:

1) I cannot find a “user 2” with the 6500K preset. Did you mean just select the 6500K that is available? If so, it would be the very same 6500K preset I used to calibrate my 709NF Profile.
2) I also cannot find a “user 2” with a 2.4 Gamma preset. Do you mean a “custom” gamma with the 2.4 correction value?
3) How can I set “two” gamma presets (Gamma D with +10, +5, +5 and 2.4 with plus 2 on dark gamma) at the same time in the same session?


Thanks for all the help.
 

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If you have a rs400 and wanted to watch uhd bd with the bt2020 profile, do the disc automatically display at p3? Also, if you do not download the 2020 profile, do the disc display at rec709 or still at p3?
 

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Discussion Starter · #439 · (Edited)
If you have a rs400 and wanted to watch uhd bd with the bt2020 profile, do the disc automatically display at p3? Also, if you do not download the 2020 profile, do the disc display at rec709 or still at p3?
Forget P3, it's not relevant with UHD Bluray.

You need the BT2020 profile to display UHD Bluray properly, even on the RS400 which doesn't have a filter.

Or you can use my BT2020-NF.

Either way, I would run an autocal of the profile if you can, it would likely improve results.

The disc/player doesn't trigger an automatic selection of bt2020. It's your responsibility to select a user mode with the BT2020 profile selected. The only thing that is selected automatically when the UHD Bluray starts to play is gamma D (PQ Gamma), so you can use the same user setting for SDR BT2020 (select whichever gamma you like) and gamma D (with JVC's settings or whatever works best in your environment).
 

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Hi Manni

Just picked up the RS500.

How do I get and install the 2020 profile?

Thanks
 
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